388 replies to this topic

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Cowser totally unimpressive defensively. Obviously the bat wasnt pretty either but Ill give him more slack there. He was scary out there. More so than Santander and Hicks and both of them make you hold your breath a lot.

[BobPhelan]

So was Mullins when he first came up.

[Mackus]

Yep, agree he was bad but completely disagree that the defensive quality he showed in the minors won't eventually translate. Some guys never learn to hit MLB stuff, but there isn't much difference in fielding. He might only be a solid corner OF like Hays is, but he's not going to be a liability like many other outfielders we've seen in recent seasons.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Im not convinced these reports of his OF defense in the minors are very accurate. Its not like any of them were saying he was a future GG anyway. Just no way to measure defense in the minors. In the eyes of the beholder. The dude couldnt even set up to field the balls and throw correctly. Just instinctual things that were bad. I refuse to believe he was "very good" seeing what he was up here. And I got on Gunnar for his defense early this year. He improved but with him youve always seen the athleticism and arm. It was more the consistency. Its still the consistency with him but you see the athleticism. Its apparent. Its always been apparent. Russ and I both said it and maybe others did too. Cowser looked so stiff, robotic and unathletic. Its just hard to see some huge change to that lack of athleticism.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Like seriously is there one check mark that you can reach and give to Cowser defensively. At least with the bat you can say the walk rate was good up here. Or the chase rate was still good. There was nothing about his D IMO you point to and say well he did flash

[makoman]

You’re going to look robotic and unathletic if you’re playing scared and tentative IMO. I think his issues were largely mental and lack of confidence. Doesn’t mean it’ll improve, but it’s possible.

I also think there’s something to getting used to the MLB parks. Mullins and Hays weren’t good when they came up.

[BobPhelan]

You’re going to look robotic and unathletic if you’re playing scared and tentative IMO. I think his issues were largely mental and lack of confidence. Doesn’t mean it’ll improve, but it’s possible.

I also think there’s something to getting used to the MLB parks. Mullins and Hays weren’t good when they came up.

This is exactly it. Like I said good reads and jumps every time I saw him including this spring training. He was lacking confidence in all aspects during his major league run.

[Mike B]

You’re going to look robotic and unathletic if you’re playing scared and tentative IMO. I think his issues were largely mental and lack of confidence. Doesn’t mean it’ll improve, but it’s possible.

I also think there’s something to getting used to the MLB parks. Mullins and Hays weren’t good when they came up.

I think those who seem to be writing Cowser off need relax and realize that 26 games and 61 at bats is not anywhere enough to judge any player.

 

We have seen prospects like Adley, Gunnar, GRod and also guys from other teams like Julio ROdriquez struggle  and eventually settle in.

[DuffMan]

I think those who seem to be writing Cowser off need relax and realize that 26 games and 61 at bats is not anywhere enough to judge any player.

This!  And on the flip side Heston has gotten all of 31 AB's with the birds and yet you have some that are ready to declare we should go with him over Cowser.   I think both players need to be seen a bit more before deciding who to keep (if we are only able to keep one).

[BSLSteveBirrer]

As mentioned many times already, the concern to me at least was not at the plate. I get you can come up and look lost. But I don't buy that in the field. Sure every park has its nuances but you know how to play out there or you don't. And (yes sss) he looked not good. Not writing him off but he's a piece I'd move in the right deal.

[Mackus]

As mentioned many times already, the concern to me at least was not at the plate. I get you can come up and look lost. But I don't buy that in the field. Sure every park has its nuances but you know how to play out there or you don't. And (yes sss) he looked not good. Not writing him off but he's a piece I'd move in the right deal.

 

Mullins is a very obvious counter-example to this argument.  He struggled quite a bit defensively when he first came up and we all know he's a legitimately excellent defender.  Cowser isn't at that level, it was debatable whether he'd be good enough to stick in centerfield, but debatably good enough for CF still usually translates to a really solid corner OF.  If he's not as good as Hays once he's up for good, I'd be pretty surprised.

[makoman]

Here is an article from Camden chat from the offseason following Mullins' debut. Of note:

 

The Orioles will be hoping for a marked improvement in his defense next year. FanGraphs gave him negative marks across the board for his arm (-0.9), range (-5.9) and, ultimately, UZR (-6.5). That all amounted to -6 defensive runs saved, which is quite poor. Again, these are small samples. Many outfielders have spoken in the past about adjusting from small minor league stadiums to massive major league stadiums with more lights and several tiers of seats. It takes time. Most scouts viewed Mullins as an above average prospect with the glove down on the farm. That hasn’t changed. If he takes strides in the field, that will provide an automatic boost to his overall value.

 

 

https://www.camdench...sis-rumors-2018

[CantonJester]

As mentioned many times already, the concern to me at least was not at the plate. I get you can come up and look lost. But I don't buy that in the field. Sure every park has its nuances but you know how to play out there or you don't. And (yes sss) he looked not good. Not writing him off but he's a piece I'd move in the right deal.

 

That 'right deal' would have to include a legit, blue chip prospect in return. 

 

Seriously, the overreaction towards Cowser's struggles during his brief call up continues to be off-the-charts. 

[Mackus]

That 'right deal' would have to include a legit, blue chip prospect in return.

Seriously, the overreaction towards Cowser's struggles during his brief call up continues to be off-the-charts.

I'd rather trade him for MLB help than another top-50 prospect.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

We will see if they open up a spot for him. That will be telling for me. Hays is the perfect candidate to go. Could move Santander too. There is playing time for him regardless assuming he takes up Hicks role but if they really believe in him and  want to lock him in for 140 games and 500 ABs a year they will move one of the current starting OFers. 

[BSLSteveBirrer]

That 'right deal' would have to include a legit, blue chip prospect in return. 

 

Seriously, the overreaction towards Cowser's struggles during his brief call up continues to be off-the-charts. 

Who has gone off the charts with any Cowser overreaction?

 

All I have aid is that I think given the depth we have in the OF that he may be more valuable as a trade chip compared to holding on to him. Somebody has to go and for me I think we would get, potentially, the best return on him compared to say Hays. I KNOW what I have in Hays. I don't KNOW what I may have with Cowser. I am willing to look at missing on some potential versus getting in a known ML quality player in an area where we need help....Closer for example. And I am with Mackus. At this point I probably (key work here) am not trading any of our depth for prospects. I want ML players. Yes I may have to package several and I am ok with that. But I much prefer not to trade prospects for prospects.

[CantonJester]

Who has gone off the charts with any Cowser overreaction?

 

All I have aid is that I think given the depth we have in the OF that he may be more valuable as a trade chip compared to holding on to him. Somebody has to go and for me I think we would get, potentially, the best return on him compared to say Hays. I KNOW what I have in Hays. I don't KNOW what I may have with Cowser. I am willing to look at missing on some potential versus getting in a known ML quality player in an area where we need help....Closer for example. And I am with Mackus. At this point I probably (key work here) am not trading any of our depth for prospects. I want ML players. Yes I may have to package several and I am ok with that. But I much prefer not to trade prospects for prospects.

 

Cowser’s a cost-controlled, lefty power hitting prospect, currently ranked 14th in MLB’s top prospect list. Teams with self-imposed budgets like the O’s do not trade assets like that for bullpen help.

[Mackus]

Needn't limit ourselves to what the Orioles will actually consider when discussing what we'd do.

[CantonJester]

Needn't limit ourselves to what the Orioles will actually consider when discussing what we'd do.

 

Fair enough. I see a left-handed, 30 HR/yr power hitter with enough range to cover the expansive LF at OPCY for the better part of the next decade. It'd be *insane* to sell low on this type of talent. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

30 HRs is a cute pipedream