148 replies to this topic

[JordanKough]

I'm being extra hard on Roman right now. 

 

I guess I'd also say this, you need a really good OL if you want to use his type of system. You need a G and T on both sides that can pull. You need a C that can call out pressures and snap the ball to Lamar effectively. 

 

If we were to go sign Scherff and Mack I'd be OK with reprising Roman's role with a passing game coordinator brought in and a focus on trying to use the pass to set up the run more often. 

 

But if we're going to patchwork the OL, you need a coordinator that can build in a quick passing or west coast offensive style first and foremost because this OL as constructed won't get it done. 

 

We missed Yanda vastly more than I thought we would. And I thought we'd miss him. Obviously Boyle and Stanley injuries hurt, too. 

 

But I wouldn't be upset if Roman was replaced by some young innovator from the college game. 

[Ravens2006]

I'm staying firmly on the "something coaching wise has to change" train. Staffing. Scheme. In-game play-calling. You name it. They've scored something like 3, 6, and 3 points before the 4th quarter in their last 3 playoff losses. Mornhinweg was atrocious, and that scheme was mostly "let Lamar bail me out". The TEN game last year they panicked and abandoned the run, and asked Lamar to throw like Brady. This year they struggled to handle the stacked boxes and blitzes. They don't do the things you might normally expect a team to try to beat those... and at this point I'm sure opposing DCs can see they don't try them much.

Why should we expect they'll make those adjustments THIS year when they have failed to do so many years running now? Even pre-Jackson. The screens, jet sweeps, wheels, inside quick gives, quick pitches, etc. They have NEVER made these fairly simple plays (and higher percentage completions even in bad weather!).

[JordanKough]

So dont hand the freaking keys of OC to a young, sharp minded offensive guy. Hand him the keys to passing coordinator. If Lamar appears to be handling the schemes and concepts well and improves as a passer yet we're still not over the hump in the next few years thats when you promote the guy and hand him and ultimately Lamar more responsibility.

 

If Roman is legitmiately down for this, I'm also down for this. 

 

But Sean McVay wasn't going to leave to be an OC somewhere else. And some young bright mind might not want to be anything but OC. And Roman may not want some young kid telling him he doesn't know what he's doing when drawing up plays. 

 

If it can work, great. but James Urban is supposed to be a very smart West Coast passing offensive mind. And none of that seems to have made it's way to being a part of what this team is doing on the field right now. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

And as big a fan of Lamar as I am I don't see him in practice and OTAs on a daily basis. These coaches do. If there are schemes or concepts they arent using in games it very well could be that they've introduced them to some extent in OTA and camps and he's not handling them well.

[Ravens2006]

You can't tell me he can't throw a reliable WR screen. He's completed 64% of his passes with like 68 TDs and 18 INTs (or something like that) in 2.5 seasons. Can't tell me he couldn't make the throw to Brown out of the same route pattern that Henne threw to Hill yesterday to run out the clock. This isn't about making him Josh Allen throwing laser beams 25 yards downfield...

There's ZERO question in my mind he can make these quick short throws with enough accuracy.

[Mike B]

You can't tell me he can't throw a reliable WR screen. He's completed 64% of his passes with like 68 TDs and 18 INTs (or something like that) in 2.5 seasons. Can't tell me he couldn't make the throw to Brown out of the same route pattern that Henne threw to Hill yesterday to run out the clock. This isn't about making him Josh Allen throwing laser beams 25 yards downfield...

There's ZERO question in my mind he can make these quick short throws with enough accuracy.

100% agree.  Lamar is plenty good enough to tick up the passing offense.  Some of the stuff we are reading and hearing from the talking heads is crap.  

I like the idea of a passing game coordinator.  Hell each team has about 20 coaches, why not one more.  Make the playbook better, address the center position and add a physical receiver and things will be better.

[Mike B]

Bottom line, not much went right this year, some players did not play to 2019 levels.  The idea is to get them back to top production.

[Roll Tide]

You can't tell me he can't throw a reliable WR screen. He's completed 64% of his passes with like 68 TDs and 18 INTs (or something like that) in 2.5 seasons. Can't tell me he couldn't make the throw to Brown out of the same route pattern that Henne threw to Hill yesterday to run out the clock. This isn't about making him Josh Allen throwing laser beams 25 yards downfield...

There's ZERO question in my mind he can make these quick short throws with enough accuracy.

 

Then why didn’t it happen? It’s been the solution to the jail blitz for ages

[Biggsy]

Lets get off the replace Roman train right now. This offense nearly rushed for 200 yards a game again this season. Over 200 per last year. An offense under Lamar has to start and end with an effective run game and no one develops a better run game than Roman. We'll be bringing in a new passing game coordinator. We'll see what he can do along with Lamar needing to get to work in the offseason to continue to develop his passing from the pocket. Be careful what you wish for Other than Kubiak, no one knew Flacco better than Cam Cameron and he was a punching bag for years. Yes, they fired him and Caldwell was the OC for the SB run but from that point on(other than Kubiak who kept Joe in check) they gave way too much responsibility to Flacco and tried to develop offenses that he was inefficient running. From Caldwell to Trestman to Mortingnweg they all failed trying to make Joe something he wasn't good at doing. You needed to hand the ball off a lot and use PA off of it. Only Cameron and Kubiak figured that out and kept Joe's ego in check. If you try to go away from this base of offense that Roman runs its not going to end well. This is where the talking heads harm a guy like Lamar's career. They'll talk about Roman harming his career when Roman is the one who has allowed him to flourish.

I'm not suggesting replacing him. I'm suggesting he open his offense up. Develop more advanced passing concepts. When someone like Warner breaks down your game tape, and immediately identifies a flaw in your passing concepts. And explains how vanilla and basic they are. You better damn well believe every single DC worth his salt can break them down and design a game plan to shut it down. Its happened in the postseason this year and last. If your answer to that is to stay the course, you're flat out wrong.


I like Roman. But he is very frustrating. You simply cannot win a superbowl being one dimensional. I would love to see less designed Lamar runs, and more drop backs where he has a quick read and an option to run instead. His bigger runs all usually come on pass plays where he breaks the pocket.

I'm not suggesting we start winging the ball 40+ times a game. But when a team is stacking the box and run blitzing 8 every play, itd be nice to see Roman get out if his pistol tight formations. If someone is going to sell out like Buffalo did, you have to have an answer for it. Roman's answer was to continue his tight pistol formations. All you're doing is helping the defense. You're allowing them to stay in the middle of the field tight, and attack. If Roman isn't capable of designing a more complex passing game, hes going to have to step down, or leave.

And if its because Lamar can't pick it up or successfully run a more complex passing game, then I agree with Tide, and we need to move on from him. For the record, I 100% believe Lamar has every skill, and the capability to learn and run a complex passing system.

At the end if the day, if our answer is to continue going forward offensively the same with limited changes, we're going to be severely disappointed every January.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

100% agree. Lamar is plenty good enough to tick up the passing offense. Some of the stuff we are reading and hearing from the talking heads is crap.
I like the idea of a passing game coordinator. Hell each team has about 20 coaches, why not one more. Make the playbook better, address the center position and add a physical receiver and things will be better.

The talking heads are unbearable both national and local. I rarely listen to any of it during the reg season. Definitely don't during a week like this. Its insane how many bad, uneducated takes are out there.

[makoman]

Then why didn’t it happen? It’s been the solution to the jail blitz for ages

Are you really going to argue that Lamar can’t throw screens?

Fans have been complaining about lack of screens since Flacco. Probably since early Flacco. This team under Harbaugh just doesn’t do it much.

[makoman]

100% agree. Lamar is plenty good enough to tick up the passing offense. Some of the stuff we are reading and hearing from the talking heads is crap.
I like the idea of a passing game coordinator. Hell each team has about 20 coaches, why not one more. Make the playbook better, address the center position and add a physical receiver and things will be better.

David Culley is passing game coordinator along with WR coach is he not? I know nothing about him except that he’s spent a bunch of time on Andy Reid’s staffs. No idea if he has any input with anything that’s happened. WR and passing game aren’t exactly the strengths of the club though.

[Ravens2006]

Then why didn’t it happen? It’s been the solution to the jail blitz for ages

I'm going to assume the staff doesn't think it's a valuable or worthwhile addition to their offense. It's never been a notable part of any Ravens offense under Harbaugh.

If you want to assume Lamar can't throw it, and the staff is scared to ask him to make those throws, so be it. I'll assume Harbaugh doesn't find it valuable or worthwhile...

[hallas]

Then why didn’t it happen? It’s been the solution to the jail blitz for ages

He threw 14 short passes not including the spike or grounding. (I'm defining short pass as a pass with 5 air yards from scrimmage or less.) He was on target with 11 of them. One of the off target balls was on an airmailed snap.

[hallas]

Thats the problem with literally taking every snap from the Gun. Other than kneel downs and sneaks. Not that snapping the ball over his head should happen with regularity but there are going to be poor snaps and a higher risk of turnovers or huge losses.

I don't recall other teams having this issue. Did the 49ers have this problem when Kaepernick was running the pistol?

[makoman]

I don't recall other teams having this issue. Did the 49ers have this problem when Kaepernick was running the pistol?

The Bills were in shotgun plenty and didn’t have this problem. Given how the line was playing I’m kind of surprised they didn’t try TCC at the half and slide Mekari over to tackle.

[Roll Tide]

Are you really going to argue that Lamar can’t throw screens?

Fans have been complaining about lack of screens since Flacco. Probably since early Flacco. This team under Harbaugh just doesn’t do it much.

I just asked why you think it didn’t happen to slow the jailbreak blitzing? 
 

No matter the reason it was totally unacceptable 

[Roll Tide]

The Bills were in shotgun plenty and didn’t have this problem. Given how the line was playing I’m kind of surprised they didn’t try TCC at the half and slide Mekari over to tackle.

The wills had everyone between the hash marks on the pistol formations and were run blitzing at the snap. The plan was to stop the QB option, RB runs, and force us to beat their passing attack.

[makoman]

The wills had everyone between the hash marks on the pistol formations and were run blitzing at the snap. The plan was to stop the QB option, RB runs, and force us to beat their passing attack.

Right but they were talking about the snapping problems. There were several that Lamar saved in addition to the two really bad ones. Something was clearly wrong with Mekari, mentally or physically.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

The wills had everyone between the hash marks on the pistol formations and were run blitzing at the snap. The plan was to stop the QB option, RB runs, and force us to beat their passing attack.

And we had started to figure it out. Not that we were horrible most of the 1st half. We marched down into FG territory on the 1st drive before a penalty put us behind the chains and Tucker missed. He missed a 2nd one before finally making one on a drive before the half. The points weren't put up on the board but its not like Buf stiffled us while Lamar was in the game. Just like last year it came down to a lack of execution on numerous players parts.