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BSL: Ravens Lose In Buffalo; Quick Takes The Morning After


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#21 Biggsy

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 08:04 PM

To play devils advocate a little, was it a waste when the Packers drafted Jordan Love? Didn’t hurt their team this year one bit.



Apples and oranges. Their QB is 38 and was coming off of one of his worst seasons.

Not to mention, I'm sure someone else they could have drafted would have made a lot bigger difference than a back-up QB.

Also, its no guarantee Love is any good. So basically, you have a superbowl caliber roster and you gave them no immediate help in the first round. And you're banking on a rookie QB, where if he doesn't work out, you've pretty much set your franchise back at least a couple of years.

But, I get why GB did it with a QB that's in the twilight of his career. We have a 23 year old MVP winner, who has led us to consecutive AFC divisional rounds in his 2 seasons as a full time starter. And has shown a phenomenal work ethic, and a willingness to perfect his craft. No reason to believe Lamar has reached his max potential as a QB at only 23.

#22 Mike in STL

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 09:48 PM

Apples and oranges. Their QB is 38 and was coming off of one of his worst seasons.

Not to mention, I'm sure someone else they could have drafted would have made a lot bigger difference than a back-up QB.

Also, its no guarantee Love is any good. So basically, you have a superbowl caliber roster and you gave them no immediate help in the first round. And you're banking on a rookie QB, where if he doesn't work out, you've pretty much set your franchise back at least a couple of years.

But, I get why GB did it with a QB that's in the twilight of his career. We have a 23 year old MVP winner, who has led us to consecutive AFC divisional rounds in his 2 seasons as a full time starter. And has shown a phenomenal work ethic, and a willingness to perfect his craft. No reason to believe Lamar has reached his max potential as a QB at only 23.


I get it. I love Lamar and all the traits that come with him. Here’s the thing though. Aaron Rodgers is going to win MVP. His supporting cast, Adams has been stud for a while, 2nd round pick. Valdez-Scantling, 5th round. Lazard, UDFA. Tonyan, UDFA.

Now If you think Lamar is that kind of guy, we don’t need to spend early draft picks on more receivers, a TE, what have you. He should be able to elevate Brown, Andrews, Snead, Boykin. 2019 he did. 2020, not so much. 2021, we shall see. Snead may be on his way out of town, replaced by Duvernay. The combo of Brown, Andrews, Boykin, and Duvernay is a 1st round, and 3, 3rd rounders. Unless these guys generate a bad case of stone hands, Lamar should be able to be very successful with that if we want to talk about him like he’s a top 5 QB.

Acquiring a proven commodity (Golladay, Robinson II), would mean I’d expect LJ to be in the MVP conversation again, assuming the supporting cast does their part. To be fair, they didn’t hold up their end of the bargain as well this past season either, compared to 2019. At least in the case of Brown, Andrews.
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#23 Mackus

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 10:22 PM

People have talked for years about how the Packers have done Rodgers dirty by not getting him early round skill position players.

I don't think there is any merit to the argument that the best quarterbacks shouldn't need early round capital spent on skill position players. You're not necessarily saying that, but coming pretty close.

#24 hallas

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 11:28 PM

Was curious about how Jackson did today, so I went back and looked at all his passes.  See below for my notes.

 

TTZaZvH.png

 

Some conclusions I had from watching this:

 

Jackson had 2 balls that IMO should have been caught.  Dobbins dropped one that was in between his numbers without a defender within 2 yards of him, that would have moved the chains.  Dobbins has had problems with drops all year.  It's a problem when your fullback is a better checkdown option than your #1 running back. Also, Andrews dropped one that was in between the numbers, with a defender on him.  However, he's a 6'5" pro-bowler, and pro-bowlers make those catches.  Other than that he had 3 obviously bad throws in my eyes, 2 of which were affected by pressure.

 

Rewatching the Pick-6, that was a failure on 3 levels: coaching/route-running, Jackson, and Andrews.  Boykin ran a corner route, but stopped halfway in the end zone to look for the ball instead of running out into the corner where there wasn't a defender within 5 yards.  Brown started running an in route in the back of the end zone but he ran it into the 4 DBs that were playing zone in front of him.  He would have had no chance there.  Jackson's decision to throw the ball at all was questionable, and his decision to throw the ball to Andrews was pretty bad, as I think a ball to Boykin would have been much safer despite the fact that he pulled up on his route.  The execution was obviously just as bad.  However, IMO, the 6 part of the Pick-6 is on Andrews.  Andrews easily could have made that tackle, but it seemed to take him forever to realize that someone picked him off and by the time he figured it out he had a blocker on him.  Which brings me to my next point, why is a 200 lb defensive back able to block out a 260 lb tight end?


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#25 jamesdean

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 06:57 AM

Was curious about how Jackson did today, so I went back and looked at all his passes.  See below for my notes.

 

TTZaZvH.png

 

Some conclusions I had from watching this:

 

Jackson had 2 balls that IMO should have been caught.  Dobbins dropped one that was in between his numbers without a defender within 2 yards of him, that would have moved the chains.  Dobbins has had problems with drops all year.  It's a problem when your fullback is a better checkdown option than your #1 running back. Also, Andrews dropped one that was in between the numbers, with a defender on him.  However, he's a 6'5" pro-bowler, and pro-bowlers make those catches.  Other than that he had 3 obviously bad throws in my eyes, 2 of which were affected by pressure.

 

Rewatching the Pick-6, that was a failure on 3 levels: coaching/route-running, Jackson, and Andrews.  Boykin ran a corner route, but stopped halfway in the end zone to look for the ball instead of running out into the corner where there wasn't a defender within 5 yards.  Brown started running an in route in the back of the end zone but he ran it into the 4 DBs that were playing zone in front of him.  He would have had no chance there.  Jackson's decision to throw the ball at all was questionable, and his decision to throw the ball to Andrews was pretty bad, as I think a ball to Boykin would have been much safer despite the fact that he pulled up on his route.  The execution was obviously just as bad.  However, IMO, the 6 part of the Pick-6 is on Andrews.  Andrews easily could have made that tackle, but it seemed to take him forever to realize that someone picked him off and by the time he figured it out he had a blocker on him.  Which brings me to my next point, why is a 200 lb defensive back able to block out a 260 lb tight end?

The whole offense was in La-La Land all night.  Just weren't prepared to play at a high level in a play-off game.  Inexcusable. 



#26 Roll Tide

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 07:04 AM

The whole offense was in La-La Land all night.  Just weren't prepared to play at a high level in a play-off game.  Inexcusable. 


 

Steve Smith is blaming Roman

 

While it’s been almost cliche to blame the Ravens’ wide receivers for not getting open, Smith said it was really Roman’s route combinations that made it easy for opposing defenses. Smith was also bothered by the complexity of the offense, saying it’s something his 6-year-old could run.

 

I have a problem with the pistol formation as it encourages the defenses to put everyone in the box. We can be assured that we will see the Bills approach again without major changes in our formations.
 

 

 

https://ravenswire.u...-lamar-jackson/


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#27 Biggsy

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 07:11 AM

The whole offense was in La-La Land all night. Just weren't prepared to play at a high level in a play-off game. Inexcusable.



Hearing a lot of guys who know their stuff, talk about our offense. One thing seems to be a general consensus. Roman is the main culprit for the passing offense.

Warner highlighted how simplistic our passing offense was the past two years. Steve Smith was calling the WR concepts 'cracker jack' route concepts. A lot of people who know football inside and out, are all pointing to the same things. Roman's offense has no complexity in the passing game. Its basically two guys run deep, 2 guys run crosses. Every single play.

And honestly, it makes sense. Guys aren't getting open because the other team can run a zone and cover exactly where they know the receivers are going to run.

That's obviously a huge issue. And I'm not honestly not sure Roman knows how to fix that. Everywhere he's gone, the run game takes off. But the passing game is very vanilla. Do we need to bring in a passing game coordinator? Do we need to move on from Roman and bring in a more well rounded coordinator with similar run game concepts? Something needs to happen. And I'm not sure how much of that falls on the players.

#28 Roll Tide

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 07:30 AM

Hearing a lot of guys who know their stuff, talk about our offense. One thing seems to be a general consensus. Roman is the main culprit for the passing offense.

Warner highlighted how simplistic our passing offense was the past two years. Steve Smith was calling the WR concepts 'cracker jack' route concepts. A lot of people who know football inside and out, are all pointing to the same things. Roman's offense has no complexity in the passing game. Its basically two guys run deep, 2 guys run crosses. Every single play.

And honestly, it makes sense. Guys aren't getting open because the other team can run a zone and cover exactly where they know the receivers are going to run.

That's obviously a huge issue. And I'm not honestly not sure Roman knows how to fix that. Everywhere he's gone, the run game takes off. But the passing game is very vanilla. Do we need to bring in a passing game coordinator? Do we need to move on from Roman and bring in a more well rounded coordinator with similar run game concepts? Something needs to happen. And I'm not sure how much of that falls on the players.


The offensive scheme is unique at the pro level. A lot of the early success is based on the novelty imo.  The formation that they so heavily run is based on the heavy focus on Jackson running the ball. I think it’s a very stubborn and arrogant approach by Roman, Harbaugh, and the Ravens, essentially saying we are going to run the ball and you can’t stop us. When teams have been successful the games have been in the playoffs and the better coached teams like KC, Patriots, etc.


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#29 Ravens2006

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 08:25 AM

The Ravens already have a guy with the label of passing game coordinator in David Culley. Who of course also has a history of working with Andy Reid. So you'd think he has some background with developing adequate offensive passing schemes.

This issue has gone on through multiple OCs. Who ultimately calls the shots? Sets the agenda? Has the authority to dictate to the coordinators how the offense should be run? And in game, can get on the headset and tell them how he wants to play it?

Seriously, throughout the Flacco years what was a constant common gripe of ours? When the pass rush was getting home, the Ravens never seemed to be able to attack it with the sorts of plays that might (not guaranteed) help slow it down and beat it in some ways. It's continued through the Jackson years so far. Same issues... teams sell out to flood the box, pass / run blitz, etc... we still see virtually no adjustments to Plan A to try to overcome. It's a lot of stick with what we want to do and either it works or we get shut down... and next week we'll just talk about how "we want to run the ball, and we all just need to get better".
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#30 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 08:34 AM

The Ravens already have a guy with the label of passing game coordinator in David Culley. Who course also has a history of working with Andy Reid. So you'd think he has some background with developing adequate offensive passing schemes.

 


He was mentioned. Rumored to be going to Jacksonville as their OC.  But your point stands that the position existed. 



#31 jamesdean

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 09:20 AM



Do we need to move on from Roman and bring in a more well rounded coordinator with similar run game concepts? Something needs to happen. And I'm not sure how much of that falls on the players.

I do think something will change.  This has happened three years in a row in post season play and you know it has to be eating at Bisciotti.  If Harbaugh isn't going to be proactive, then the owner will make that decision for him.  Guaranteed.  It won't play out that way in the press but it will happen.  Some of it falls on the players too.  There's not a lot of talent at the wide receiver position, something that has plagued this organization for years.  I think drafting receivers is a waste of time because no one seems to know how to develop them here.  I doubt even Diggs would have been doing much at this point.  So, you either sign a talented free agent in his prime or trade for one.  I don't know how feasible that will be relative to cap numbers but they better figure out a way to do it.  I still think this should be a run heavy offense because of Lamar and what I do think will be a solid OL but being last in the league in anything is not acceptable if you have ambitions of winning a Super Bowl.  



#32 jamesdean

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 09:21 AM


 

Steve Smith is blaming Roman

 

 

I have a problem with the pistol formation as it encourages the defenses to put everyone in the box. We can be assured that we will see the Bills approach again without major changes in our formations.
 

 

 

https://ravenswire.u...-lamar-jackson/

Yes, I did read Smith's comments in the Sun this morning.  All I can say is, "ouch!" 



#33 Roll Tide

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 09:25 AM

Yes, I did read Smith's comments in the Sun this morning.  All I can say is, "ouch!" 


 

I suggest watching NFL this morning. They spent 10 minutes on the Ravens and Lamar and said it will never work in the playoffs. I don’t want to spoil it by giving you my take but I’d love to know your thoughts after watching it.


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#34 Roll Tide

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 09:25 AM

The Ravens have to find a way to get more out of Jackson in the passing game. There is little question that he is the most dynamic offensive player in the NFL, but his limitations hurt the offense. By midway through the second quarter, the Bills were using a lot of run blitzes to slow the rushing attack, and once pressured, Jackson reverted back to his poor mechanics.


 

Preston’s take


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#35 Ravens2006

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 09:37 AM

I won't suggest the Ravens have the league's best WR corps.  But there is talent there.  There's speed in places, size in others.  While we always yearn for a #1 WR, the Superbowl winner doesn't always have a Randy Moss or Terrell Owens in their prime.

 

Brown and Duvernay have top tier speed.  Boykin has some size and decent hands.  Snead is about as tough as they come, a poor man's Steve Smith in my view.  James Proche was trustworthy enough to field punts all year, he was deemed to have "the best hands in the draft" last year by Daniel Jeramiah.  So without being at practices, I'd guess he has decent hands (and enough speed to return kicks).  Seriously, when's the last time ANYBODY recalls the Ravens running a quick WR screen to punch the ball in from inside the 5 yard line???  It's something I see other teams do every single week, and I honestly couldn't tell you if it's EVER happened in the entire Harbaugh era.  I'm sure it has at SOME point.  Good luck finding it.

 

USE THE TALENT YOU HAVE to maximize their skills.  Guess what...?  If the Ravens go out and add the best big body physical WR in the world this off-season... teams will STILL be able to take HIM away in January if they make it a focus, and if the line doesn't block better and Team Harbs doesn't do something new to beat the stacked boxes and blitzes... IT WON'T MATTER NEXT YEAR EITHER.  Michael Thomas was shut out for the first time in his career last night.



#36 Mackus

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 09:41 AM

I think they tried to pass more earlier in the season and the pass blocking was so problematic that it wasn't effective.

Fix the offensive line and you can get the most out of Lamar. He can throw it. He proved that last season. He just needs some time in the pocket. He'll put the work in to regain the mechanical improvements he made prior to 2019 and make whatever other improvements he's capable of.

Interior OL has to be addressed with significant resources.

#37 ivanbalt

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 10:13 AM

I think they tried to pass more earlier in the season and the pass blocking was so problematic that it wasn't effective.

Fix the offensive line and you can get the most out of Lamar. He can throw it. He proved that last season. He just needs some time in the pocket. He'll put the work in to regain the mechanical improvements he made prior to 2019 and make whatever other improvements he's capable of.

Interior OL has to be addressed with significant resources.


This.  Improve pass blocking and develop a better short passing game.  Josh Allen didn't set the world on fire throwing the ball, but he had a ton of time on most plays and was able to make the throws he needed to.



#38 jamesdean

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 12:50 PM


 

I suggest watching NFL this morning. They spent 10 minutes on the Ravens and Lamar and said it will never work in the playoffs. I don’t want to spoil it by giving you my take but I’d love to know your thoughts after watching it.

Missed it.  What we're they saying?  



#39 Biggsy

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 01:07 PM



I suggest watching NFL this morning. They spent 10 minutes on the Ravens and Lamar and said it will never work in the playoffs. I don’t want to spoil it by giving you my take but I’d love to know your thoughts after watching it.



Lamar needs to improve as a passer. Im not sure anyone denies that. But he also needs help. He needs an offensive line that can protect him. He needs an OC that introduces a more complex passing scheme. They have the run game. They have the ability to dominate there. We know that. And just like you said, the better coaches and teams, in the postseason, know exactly how to kill the current offense.

I dont dislike Roman. He very clearly is a running game guru. Everywhere he goes, his teams running game takes off. Problem is, that only gets you so far. We need to create a legitimate passing offense. Lamar can make every throw. He can read a defense. He goes through progressions. And he has a good football IQ. They need to open it up. Im not sure Roman is the guy that can do that. At least not on his own.

When a team lines up like Tennessee and Buffalo did. I would love to see the Ravens come out in a spread and just pick them apart through the air. Its something this offense, and Lamar need to develop the ability to do, or were going to be stuck as the runner up every year.

And honestly, were not that far away. This notion that great QBs don't need help, is ludicrous. Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady and Allen, the 4 QBs left, all have stacked offenses. Mahomes has had a great o-line, good RBs and phenomenal WRs and an all time great at TE his whole short career. Manning always had stacked offenses. Brady may be the only QB that hasn't had stacked offenses. But he always had a great o-line, Welker/Edleman/Gronk. And a great defense every year he won. This notion that if Lamar was elite he shouldn't need help is idiotic.

As I said, they're not far off. Get some help in the IOL. Get a WR that can make the big plays. And get Roman to open up the passing game, or bring someone in that can. Honestly, the defense needs some attention too. But they played superbowl caliber defense in both games. They shut down two legitimate offenses. DeCosta is a handful of moves away. And I have faith that he'll do what needs to be done.
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#40 Steve55

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 01:18 PM


 

Good stuff...very classy by Bills fans

 

 

Classy yes because it helps charities, but it still smacks a bit of rubbing our noses in it. Would they have done the same if they had lost .? Nope .






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