All Star
Posted 19 January 2021 - 07:34 AM
David Culley is passing game coordinator along with WR coach is he not? I know nothing about him except that he’s spent a bunch of time on Andy Reid’s staffs. No idea if he has any input with anything that’s happened. WR and passing game aren’t exactly the strengths of the club though.
Is it Culley or Urban .? Someone else said it was Urban. Either way it doesn't seem neither has much influence with Roman. Is he another my way kind of guy.
Banned
Posted 19 January 2021 - 07:48 AM
Well, Petrino ran a largely traditional NFL offense at Louisville, and Jackson won the the Heisman... but beyond that, Coaching is about putting the talent you have in the best position for results, not about trying to get your talent to fit your scheme.
Major tweaks aren't needed here.
What is needed is improvement on the line, a veteran move-the-chains WR, and a 3rd TE you like.
Chris .... I get it and I’m not sure one way or the other. But, why in the world is everyone being so critical about it being super Vanilla if it’s not true. Was that ever a knock on Roman before his time here? You’d think that you’d be able to find a trace of it on the internet somewhere. And how on earth would his name be mentioned as a possible head coach if he’s not capable of creating complex offensive plans. The running game will become completely worthless if we can beat a defensive scheme that jail break blitzes on every down.
Again, I’m not putting it all on Lamar other than to say we put the ball in the hands of what many perceive as our best player and he didn’t get it done. Outside of the defense he got little help, but, he’s a guy your contemplating giving a mega contract and for 3 straight years our offense has been diminished to a recreation level Unit in the playoffs.
Banned
Posted 19 January 2021 - 07:49 AM
Is it Culley or Urban .? Someone else said it was Urban. Either way it doesn't seem neither has much influence with Roman. Is he another my way kind of guy.
Culley is D-Line
Owner
Posted 19 January 2021 - 07:50 AM
Chris .... I get it and I’m not sure one way or the other. But, why in the world is everyone being so critical about it being super Vanilla if it’s not true. Was that ever a knock on Roman before his time here? You’d think that you’d be able to find a trace of it on the internet somewhere. And how on earth would his name be mentioned as a possible head coach if he’s not capable of creating complex offensive plans. The running game will become completely worthless if we can beat a defensive scheme that jail break blitzes on every down.
Again, I’m not putting it all on Lamar other than to say we put the ball in the hands of what many perceive as our best player and he didn’t get it done. Outside of the defense he got little help, but, he’s a guy your contemplating giving a mega contract and for 3 straight years our offense has been diminished to a recreation level Unit in the playoffs.
They can be 100% right about it being simplistic... and it doesn't matter much when the Ravens have led the league in point differential the last 2 years.
The question is can it work in the post-season, and I think it's simplistic to say it can work in the regular season, but can't in the playoffs.
HOF
Posted 19 January 2021 - 07:58 AM
Culley is D-Line
No, Culley is WR and passing game. You're thinking of Joe Cullen.
https://www.baltimor...coaches-roster/
Urban is QB coach.
HOF
Posted 19 January 2021 - 08:02 AM
They can be 100% right about it being simplistic... and it doesn't matter much when the Ravens have led the league in point differential the last 2 years.
The question is can it work in the post-season, and I think it's simplistic to say it can work in the regular season, but can't in the playoffs.
HOF
Posted 19 January 2021 - 08:07 AM
I did not watch Warner’s clip, but I did watch NFL this morning. They put a lot of it on Lamar rather then Roman.
Here’s the rub....On the Boykin play he threw it right to the defender and it’s a ball you don’t throw. Even if it’s 3rd down you throw it away, run, and take the shot at the FG. The interception is on Lamar ...period
The interception against Tennessee was the same way!
I saw the play you mentioned during the game and I understand what you are saying about Brown and Andrews. I still think an accurate passer can get that ball over the top to Brown. But, maybe not.
Most of the NFL guys agree with the game plan being Vanilla. Steve Smith said his 6 year old could create the game plan. I know it’s not popular but Maybe Jackson can’t handle a complicated offense.
Owner
Posted 19 January 2021 - 08:21 AM
It very obviously does not work in the postseason. We haven't had one explosive offensive game in the postseason with this offense. Thats not bad luck or a coincidence. And its certainly not because we've played juggernauts on defense. Tennessee and Buffalo are middle-of-the-road defenses. They shut our offense down. Thats not a coincidence. That's a scheme issue. When you see receivers running basic route concepts every play. You see 3 receivers consistently running to the same spot on the field. Thats embarrassing for an NFL offense.
Maybe Lamar can't handle a complicated passing scheme. But I seriously doubt it. I think Roman is phenomenal at creating a running scheme. Proof is there. But early returns are showing he is very incapable of creating the same kind of innovation in the passing game. If you think that doesn't need to change, I don't know what to say.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
It hasn't worked to date in 4 post-season games (1st with Jackson making his 8th start, 2nd in loss to Titans where they couldn't stop the run, and abandoned the run themselves, 3rd in win vs. Titans, and 4th in loss to the Bills).
There are improvements needed - Interior OL, reliable move-the-chains WR, 3rd TE - but I'm not of the opinion what they do in the regular season can't be replicated in the post-season.
That said, I'm not opposed to tweaking the offense, to get more balance as Hollywood spoke about.
Even if the run game still dominated the offense, it would be significant if you moved from the least productive passing offense to middle of the pack, or top of the lower 1/3rd.
HOF
Posted 19 January 2021 - 08:56 AM
It very obviously does not work in the postseason. We haven't had one explosive offensive game in the postseason with this offense. Thats not bad luck or a coincidence. And its certainly not because we've played juggernauts on defense. Tennessee and Buffalo are middle-of-the-road defenses. They shut our offense down. Thats not a coincidence. That's a scheme issue. When you see receivers running basic route concepts every play. You see 3 receivers consistently running to the same spot on the field. Thats embarrassing for an NFL offense.
Maybe Lamar can't handle a complicated passing scheme. But I seriously doubt it. I think Roman is phenomenal at creating a running scheme. Proof is there. But early returns are showing he is very incapable of creating the same kind of innovation in the passing game. If you think that doesn't need to change, I don't know what to say.
It's true that it hasn't worked in the postseason, but I am not sure exactly why. It's not as if teams don't try in the regular season, and it's not as if we never played good teams in the regular season.
This year we played the following playoff teams: Cleveland twice, Pitt, WFT, Indy, Tenn, KC (throw out the COVID game). We scored 47, 38, 31, 24, 24, 24, 20. So the O was fine vs the Browns. Pitt we had over 450 yards but 4 turnovers, should have scored a lot more. Indy we sucked for a half vs a top 10 D and were great for a half. Tenn we only scored 1 TD in the red zone, could easily have been over 30 points. KC we played awful.
Last year we played the following playoff teams: Hou, NE, Sea, KC, Buf, SF. Against those teams we scored 41, 37, 30, 28, 24, and 20. 4 of the 6 games were 28+ points, which one can’t really complain about. The 24 was against the 2nd best team in the league in points allowed and was a terribly windy day. The 20 was in a rain storm where the other team, who was 2nd in the league in points, only got 17.
Is there evidence that defenses step it up in the playoffs, other than the notion that generally teams in the playoffs are good? I have no idea. But regular season games are important too, especially division games, and good teams certainly try their best in the regular season too. We had 450 yards against a top 3 defense that won our division, and averaged over 40 points against a team that just held the Chiefs to 22. Last year NE was undefeated and trying to claim they were the best D of all time and we dropped 37 on them. So I don't know that we can necessarily throw out the offense based on 3 games. I just don't know.
All Star
Posted 19 January 2021 - 09:18 AM
It very obviously does not work in the postseason. We haven't had one explosive offensive game in the postseason with this offense. Thats not bad luck or a coincidence. And its certainly not because we've played juggernauts on defense. Tennessee and Buffalo are middle-of-the-road defenses. They shut our offense down. Thats not a coincidence. That's a scheme issue. When you see receivers running basic route concepts every play. You see 3 receivers consistently running to the same spot on the field. Thats embarrassing for an NFL offense.
Maybe Lamar can't handle a complicated passing scheme. But I seriously doubt it. I think Roman is phenomenal at creating a running scheme. Proof is there. But early returns are showing he is very incapable of creating the same kind of innovation in the passing game. If you think that doesn't need to change, I don't know what to say.
Their 1st 2nd half drive it looked like the adjustments were made to the short passing game just like the Colts game. The Int killed it. Yes I saw the crowding of receivers downfield. But its been that way for the past 2 yrs and Harbaugh hasn't asked it to be changed.
HOF
Posted 19 January 2021 - 09:44 AM
Their 1st 2nd half drive it looked like the adjustments were made to the short passing game just like the Colts game. The Int killed it. Yes I saw the crowding of receivers downfield. But its been that way for the past 2 yrs and Harbaugh hasn't asked it to be changed.
Banned
Posted 19 January 2021 - 10:16 AM
They can be 100% right about it being simplistic... and it doesn't matter much when the Ravens have led the league in point differential the last 2 years.
The question is can it work in the post-season, and I think it's simplistic to say it can work in the regular season, but can't in the playoffs.
I think your right ....But, last year we blew pretty much everyone away in the regular season. This year we struggled with the good teams. So we might be worse off during the regular season next year if more teams adjust.
Banned
Posted 19 January 2021 - 10:19 AM
So that makes it alright, and it shouldn't be addressed now?
I'm not saying a to change the offense. Keep the running concepts. Keep a 60/40 run/pass split. The running game is phenomenal.
What I AM saying is we need to address the passing scheme. If you're ok with this passing scheme, you're flat out wrong. We run the most basic routes, and we bunch receivers in the same area of the field. And we wonder why we can't get people open, or struggle in the postseason? Seriously, go see it for yourself. Its embarrassing to watch our route combo's. If you don't think that needs to change, you're just burying your head in the sand.
Sure, add IOL, get a possession guy who can make plays. Im all for it. But guess what, if you run that big time WR on a quick slant, then run Andrews in a hitch right in front of his slant, then drag Brown from the other side on a crosser right into the same area as the slant, it isn't going to work. Literally 2 defenders can cover all 3 guys at once in a zone. And THAT is literally happening in this offense. And the constant defense of this is so frustrating.
As team adjust to defend the run we will no doubt need to pass more. I think you will see teams mimic Buffalo’s game plan. I was actually surprised that more teams didn’t try to mimic the Chargers plan in the MVP season.
HOF
Posted 19 January 2021 - 10:40 AM
I think your right ....But, last year we blew pretty much everyone away in the regular season. This year we struggled with the good teams. So we might be worse off during the regular season next year if more teams adjust.
I've been reluctant to admit that the Ravens can't just bulldoze their way through teams via the run but I do think you're right. There has to be a shift in attacking teams differently. It took a couple of years but I think the solution to Lamar as a runner is finally upon us. Let's just hope the Ravens coaching staff realizes the dream is over and that they must adjust. The passing game for this team is a shit show on a lot of different levels so it's not going to be an easy fix. It will take a whole off season to figure it out and hopefully, come summer, they'll have a regular camp to work on it extensively.
HOF
Posted 19 January 2021 - 10:58 AM
There HAS to be more quick release stuff built in to the playbook AND actually USED on game day. Unless they're going to magically find another Yanda, another Birk, and another Grubbs this off-season... for the love of all things holy, build in more WR screens, RB screens, inside pitches, quick outside tosses, quick slants, etc. Maybe some play action roll outs (traditional). But the hope of seeing that sort of goes against 13 seasons of Harbaugh's evidence... so we'll see...
Owner
Posted 19 January 2021 - 11:03 AM
There HAS to be more quick release stuff built in to the playbook AND actually USED on game day. Unless they're going to magically find another Yanda, another Birk, and another Grubbs this off-season... for the love of all things holy, build in more WR screens, RB screens, inside pitches, quick outside tosses, quick slants, etc. Maybe some play action roll outs (traditional). But the hope of seeing that sort of goes against 13 seasons of Harbaugh's evidence... so we'll see...
Do agree with this. Hard not to. You've been drafting speed, you have to find multiple ways to use vs. run deep, or end arounds.
HOF
Posted 19 January 2021 - 11:10 AM
There HAS to be more quick release stuff built in to the playbook AND actually USED on game day. Unless they're going to magically find another Yanda, another Birk, and another Grubbs this off-season... for the love of all things holy, build in more WR screens, RB screens, inside pitches, quick outside tosses, quick slants, etc. Maybe some play action roll outs (traditional). But the hope of seeing that sort of goes against 13 seasons of Harbaugh's evidence... so we'll see...
Agree 100%. It has to be a Harbs thing, because the only time we saw some of this was the Kubiak year.
HOF
Posted 19 January 2021 - 11:10 AM
Do agree with this. Hard not to. You've been drafting speed, you have to find multiple ways to use vs. run deep, or end arounds.
You're right and I was really disappointed in how they used Duvernay. Was he THAT limited in his ability? Why did you draft him? Is he only good for returning kicks? The overall scope of what needs to be done will take time but it does get old that they can't even utilize what they already have on the roster. But like Ravens2006 said, Harbaugh can be a hard head.
MVP
Posted 19 January 2021 - 11:13 AM
There HAS to be more quick release stuff built in to the playbook AND actually USED on game day. Unless they're going to magically find another Yanda, another Birk, and another Grubbs this off-season... for the love of all things holy, build in more WR screens, RB screens, inside pitches, quick outside tosses, quick slants, etc. Maybe some play action roll outs (traditional). But the hope of seeing that sort of goes against 13 seasons of Harbaugh's evidence... so we'll see...
The idea of PA rollouts is intriguing to me. The threat of Lamar running from the rollout should often make somebody leave their receiver; planned or not, we saw that a few times this year including the TD to Brown against Cleveland.
HOF
Posted 19 January 2021 - 11:21 AM
The bottom line to me is the Ravens have to be willing to move away from what's not working faster. Period.
You can do everything else, keep all the things and all the coaches, and all the coordinators the same. Fine by me. Just be wiling to diversity and adjust the gameplan more. In some ways that's a vast oversimplication but at the same time, to me, it's 100% the problem right now.
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