786 replies to this topic

[Mike in STL]

Is this what MLB has turned into...

 

 

The few games I've seen since the 21st, they will check a pitcher after an inning on their way back to the dugout. So it isn't supposed to slow down pace of play. But I believe this was Girardi asking for him to be checked mid-inning, after he had been checked twice after an inning already earlier in the game. I guess like asking to check George Brett's bat for excessive pine tar after a home run. More of an isolated incident. I doubt we see many games slowed down by managers who aren't clowns like Girardi. 

[Nigel Tufnel]

Yeah, that was just Girardi being an a-hole on day 1 of a new rule.  He couldn't get away with that now.

[CantonJester]

I have no problem with Girardi making a mockery of the rule, because (to me) it supposes the rule isn't a good faith one from the start. 

[Mike in STL]

I have no problem with Girardi making a mockery of the rule, because (to me) it supposes the rule isn't a good faith one from the start.

Do you mean it isn’t in good faith from a player safety perspective?

[russsnyder]

I have put some of my thoughts about the crackdown on the sticky stuff on the other thread. However, MLB has made poor decision after poor decision with this situation.

First, they allowed the practice of using substances for years under the guise of " player safety". Further, the gentleman's agreement among the managers kept the umpires from policing the pitchers. In essence, it kept them from doing their jobs.

MLB has made a bad situation worse by having umpires check pitchers after every inning. Because of the rule change, I have no real issue with Girardi and his actions. Let baseball deal with the three ring circus it has created. They deserve any ridicule they get.

IMO, MLB should have put teams on notice that umpires would be enforcing the ban on substances used by pitchers beginning in spring training 2022.

Meanwhile, the league could have also began working with the players association on a legal substance to improve a pitcher's grip. I'm thinking something like a Gorilla Grip towelettes. Let the pitcher keep it in their back pocket.

[BSLChrisStoner]

CBS Sports: MLB Power Rankings: Why it's time to stop questioning the first-place San Francisco Giants

https://www.cbssport...ancisco-giants/

[CantonJester]

Do you mean it isn’t in good faith from a player safety perspective?

 

Let me ask you this:

 

Do you think there's been some revolutionary advancement in sticky stuff that has forced the hand of MLB? Or is it in combination with the fact they've altered the ball to keep it in the yard a bit more than last year? That the sport is about to enter another season of labor negotiations is something else to consider, as well. 

 

I think this is a classic wag-the-dog tale. 

 

I have put some of my thoughts about the crackdown on the sticky stuff on the other thread. However, MLB has made poor decision after poor decision with this situation.

First, they allowed the practice of using substances for years under the guise of " player safety". Further, the gentleman's agreement among the managers kept the umpires from policing the pitchers. In essence, it kept them from doing their jobs.

MLB has made a bad situation worse by having umpires check pitchers after every inning. Because of the rule change, I have no real issue with Girardi and his actions. Let baseball deal with the three ring circus it has created. They deserve any ridicule they get.

IMO, MLB should have put teams on notice that umpires would be enforcing the ban on substances used by pitchers beginning in spring training 2022.

Meanwhile, the league could have also began working with the players association on a legal substance to improve a pitcher's grip. I'm thinking something like a Gorilla Grip towelettes. Let the pitcher keep it in their back pocket.

 

This is another reason why I suggested managers (in this instance, Girardi) stop play as often as possible. 

[Mike in STL]

Let me ask you this:

 

Do you think there's been some revolutionary advancement in sticky stuff that has forced the hand of MLB? Or is it in combination with the fact they've altered the ball to keep it in the yard a bit more than last year? That the sport is about to enter another season of labor negotiations is something else to consider, as well. 

 

I think this is a classic wag-the-dog tale. 

 

 

This is another reason why I suggested managers (in this instance, Girardi) stop play as often as possible. 

I don't know what the deal with the sticky stuff is. Other than I've heard that for years every catcher in the league has had pine tar on their shin guards. Didn't realize it was an issue, until I guess MLB started noticing more unsual doctoring of balls. 

 

Could be MLB trying to take attention away from their own doctoring of the balls the last few years. Would be nice if they just make the ball standard, for good.

 

Could also be the sticky stuff has evolved past a dab of pine tar, leading to crazy spin rates and more un-hittable pitches.

 

I'm not really sure, but will look forward to the findings after the season. 

 

IMO K's are way up because of the hitters approach. Uppercut swings mean the bat doesn't stay in the strike zone as long as a more level swing does. If balls were so un-hittable, HRs wouldn't be through the roof.  MLB never admitted to juicing the ball last year, but said they would deaden it this year. Not enough apparently, balls still flying out. Hitters are taking an all or nothing approach. I'm not sure there is a rule that can combat that.

 

Pitchers may be upset about it, but I don't think managers should make a mockery of the game unless they genuinely think a pitcher is acting outside the rules. Girardi claimed Max was wiping sweat more than usual. Yeah...okay Joe. Whatever you say. Max thinks he needs sticky stuff because he said about the rules "ask Alec Bohm how he feels about 95 to the face." It was one pitch that got away. If you rely on a substance to pitch better, you shouldn't be an MLB pitcher. If you are using it to generate higher spin to try to get more strikeouts to combat the increase in HRs, then it's just pitchers taking matters into their own hands...poorly I might add. A slider spinning at 4000rpm isn't gonna fool anyone when its belt high over the middle of the plate. 

[russsnyder]

I don't know what the deal with the sticky stuff is. Other than I've heard that for years every catcher in the league has had pine tar on their shin guards. Didn't realize it was an issue, until I guess MLB started noticing more unsual doctoring of balls.

Could be MLB trying to take attention away from their own doctoring of the balls the last few years. Would be nice if they just make the ball standard, for good.

Could also be the sticky stuff has evolved past a dab of pine tar, leading to crazy spin rates and more un-hittable pitches.

I'm not really sure, but will look forward to the findings after the season.

IMO K's are way up because of the hitters approach. Uppercut swings mean the bat doesn't stay in the strike zone as long as a more level swing does. If balls were so un-hittable, HRs wouldn't be through the roof. MLB never admitted to juicing the ball last year, but said they would deaden it this year. Not enough apparently, balls still flying out. Hitters are taking an all or nothing approach. I'm not sure there is a rule that can combat that.

Pitchers may be upset about it, but I don't think managers should make a mockery of the game unless they genuinely think a pitcher is acting outside the rules. Girardi claimed Max was wiping sweat more than usual. Yeah...okay Joe. Whatever you say. Max thinks he needs sticky stuff because he said about the rules "ask Alec Bohm how he feels about 95 to the face." It was one pitch that got away. If you rely on a substance to pitch better, you shouldn't be an MLB pitcher. If you are using it to generate higher spin to try to get more strikeouts to combat the increase in HRs, then it's just pitchers taking matters into their own hands...poorly I might add. A slider spinning at 4000rpm isn't gonna fool anyone when its belt high over the middle of the plate.

There's a good article from SI about the Angel's clubhouse guy who was fired for providing pitchers with sticky stuff. He alledgedly learned the formula from Troy Percival who has been retired for years. I think it's a fair assumption that these substances have allowed pitchers to increase their spin rates along with their grip of a baseball.

There's no doubt that the " all or nothing" approach has contributed greatly to baseball's overall K rate. However, I think the high spin rates have had an impact as well.

Girardi's job is to win games. If he gets into Scherzer's head, than that's on Scherzer. You're correct, if Scherzer needs an illegal substance to pitch in the big leagues, he probably should retire. Something tells me he'll be fine without it. As I stated before, MLB taking this approach in the middle of the season is madness.

Here is the SI article:

https://www.si.com/m...out-daily-cover

[CantonJester]

So...um, what the hell, Trevor Bauer?

[TwentyThirtyFive]

So...um, what the hell, Trevor Bauer?

Has always been a weird dude. Like weird weird.

[CantonJester]

Has always been a weird dude. Like weird weird.

 

Based on the allegations and evidence collected, and Bauer's statement, if he weren't a professional baseball player he'd have already been arrested. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Based on the allegations and evidence collected, and Bauer's statement, if he weren't a professional baseball player he'd have already been arrested.

For sure. Obviously there is some non zero chance the woman is lying about the extremely physical and brutal stuff but she's not.

[CantonJester]

For sure. Obviously there is some non zero chance the woman is lying about the extremely physical and brutal stuff but she's not.

 

It would appear she has a competent law team that got the police involved. This isn't a shakedown for $. 

[Mackus]

If he did something she didn't consent to I hope they have him admitting that via text or something because otherwise I think that's gonna be a hard case to prove in court. Criminal case, that is.

[BSLChrisStoner]

FanGraphs: State of the Org: American League

[CantonJester]

If he did something she didn't consent to I hope they have him admitting that via text or something because otherwise I think that's gonna be a hard case to prove in court. Criminal case, that is.

 

He choked her out, beat her to the point of fracturing her skull and raped her anally as she was unconscious. I mean, you do understand that consent gets rescinded when the victim is no longer responsive, right?

[Mackus]

He choked her out, beat her to the point of fracturing her skull and raped her anally as she was unconscious. I mean, you do understand that consent gets rescinded when the victim is no longer responsive, right?

 

No, I don't understand that.  Does consent get rescinded if it included agreeing to do stuff once unconscious?  I don't know, from a legal perspective.  It's obviously a tremendously different scenario, but if you're going in for surgery, your consent for the doctor to conduct the surgery doesn't get rescinded once you're under.  But if the doctor does something you didn't agree to before going unconscious, then they're liable. Sounds to me from her allegations and his response that getting choked, even to the point of unconsciousness, was part of what they were going for.  Not sure if they agreed to actions while unconscious or not, Bauer's people seems to be claiming they did.  She's saying they didn't.

 

If he did anything that she didn't request or agree to, then he should be in huge trouble.  If he didn't, then he shouldn't be.  How anyone outside of the two of them will be able to determine what was agreed to and what wasn't will be very difficult unless they talked about it all over text beforehand.

[BSLChrisStoner]

The skull fractures seem impossible to explain imo.

[Mackus]

The skull fractures seem impossible to explain imo.

 

If she asked/agreed to be hit and that's the result, is it a crime?  I don't know.  If a boxer fractures his opponent's skull or nose, that's not a crime.

 

Since both sides seem to agree on what happened, this case appears to come down solely to what was consented to and what wasn't.  If anything was not consented to, then Bauer should be in trouble for that.  I don't know legally where the burden of proof is, if she needs to prove something wasn't consented to or he needs to prove each thing was.  And it's especially tricky since some things were clearly agreed to but the complaint is that others were not, and it's not like they got lawyers involved ahead of time and spelled out exactly what was agreed to and what wasn't.  So she may have thought they were agreeing to one thing, and Bauer thought they were agreeing to some far more extreme variation of that.  I don't know what the legal standard is, but I would side with her in that regard, if Bauer is initiating an act, he's gotta be sure he's got consent to do it.  So, just to make up an example, if they agreed ahead of time to "hitting" which she interpreted as slapping but Bauer thought meant punching, then he should be in trouble for punching her.