786 replies to this topic

[CantonJester]

First, Donaldson's an idiot.

 

And notice how the narrative is no longer about how management deadened the baseball, causing all these no hitters and the paucity of offensive numbers this year. 

 

Now it's about how the players (pitchers) are cheating. They're going to crackdown on substances starting June 14th. They'll get their scapegoats for the purpose of blame, and move on. 

[russsnyder]

First, Donaldson's an idiot.

And notice how the narrative is no longer about how management deadened the baseball, causing all these no hitters and the paucity of offensive numbers this year.

Now it's about how the players (pitchers) are cheating. They're going to crackdown on substances starting June 14th. They'll get their scapegoats for the purpose of blame, and move on.

You make good point about MLB likely making pitchers the scapegoat for the offensive power outage.

[CantonJester]

You make good point about MLB likely making pitchers the scapegoat for the offensive power outage.

 

I can't help but sense there's a wag-the-dog element to all of this. 

[russsnyder]

I can't help but sense there's a wag-the-dog element to all of this.

I agree.

The pitchers have been using this stuff for years. Initially, the reason for being liberal with the rules was for safety reasons. Guys throwing mid nineties with better grip are less likely to maim someone. Now it's a problem because offense is down. Did people really expect pitchers not to take advantage of the lack of rule enforcement? The best course of action would be to let things go this year, but let everyone know that umps would be enforcing this rule next year. I doubt MLB will entertain a suggestion like Showalter made.

[Mike in STL]

https://www.audacy.c...-josh-donaldson

Buck weighing in on the issue. Tells Josh Donaldson that he should not use pine tar or batting gloves if he wants to be " pure".

Hey Buck, the last time I checked pine tar and batting gloves are legal things for hitters to use. Despite you and other managers having a "gentleman's agreement" regarding pitcher's using the substance, pine tar is not a legal substance for pitchers.

All you and the other managers did was open the door for these guys to expand the use of these substances so that they eventually gained a decided advantage. I don't blame them one bit, but Buck does a poor job trying to justify his contribution to this problem with this weak position.

However, he does have a good suggestion in making pine rags available to all pitchers on the mound. It may be too practical an idea for MLB to use.

Buck's an idiot. Yeah. Lets turn the clock back 60 years to when everybody just peed on their hands all the time. 

 

I would question how much doctoring is really done to the ball, and for what reasons. If it's for control, then that should be encouraged. If it's for creating ridiculous tilt on breaking balls, then no. The average lifespan of a baseball is only about two pitches anyway. I feel like there was quite a bit of embellishment in that article posted here I think that started the thread. Theres a ball that had a hardened, something on it, so hard it ripped the stitches out trying to get it off the ball? And pitcher did this to a ball 40+ times in a game then, right?

 

It's real simple. In a full slate of games, about 1500 baseballs are used in one day. On one, unannounced day, have MLB reps alongside ushers in ballparks. Whenever there is a foul ball, a home run, a kid gets a ball tossed to them, the rep just asks the fan to see the ball real quick. Is there anything sticky, slimy, rougher, smoother, discolored on the ball that implies it was doctored? Takes five seconds, thanks, heres your ball back. Submit results to league office. Decide how to proceed. 

[russsnyder]

Buck's an idiot. Yeah. Lets turn the clock back 60 years to when everybody just peed on their hands all the time.

I would question how much doctoring is really done to the ball, and for what reasons. If it's for control, then that should be encouraged. If it's for creating ridiculous tilt on breaking balls, then no. The average lifespan of a baseball is only about two pitches anyway. I feel like there was quite a bit of embellishment in that article posted here I think that started the thread. Theres a ball that had a hardened, something on it, so hard it ripped the stitches out trying to get it off the ball? And pitcher did this to a ball 40+ times in a game then, right?

It's real simple. In a full slate of games, about 1500 baseballs are used in one day. On one, unannounced day, have MLB reps alongside ushers in ballparks. Whenever there is a foul ball, a home run, a kid gets a ball tossed to them, the rep just asks the fan to see the ball real quick. Is there anything sticky, slimy, rougher, smoother, discolored on the ball that implies it was doctored? Takes five seconds, thanks, heres your ball back. Submit results to league office. Decide how to proceed.

I think Buck's comparison of a hitter vs. A pitcher using pine tar was idiotic. The only legitimate analogy that Buck could have used is if Donaldson had been caught using a loaded bat. He hasn't, so while he may disagree with Donaldson's view, his " point" missed the mark..

I get what you are saying, if a pitch​​ hits the dirt, it gets replaced. While the stories about doctored balls may be embellished, I think the practice of mixing substances to increase spin rate is used pretty liberally throughout MLB.

No manager questions pine tar on the tip of a cap. Mix that with some rosin on your fingertips and your mid nineties fastball has a higher spin rate, looks like it has more velo and late movement. It's different than scuffing a ball, because you have the means of doctoring multiple balls in an inning.

Also, I think most MLB teams have been encouraging this because of how these mixes make some pitchers more effective. Besides, doctoring baseballs has been a part of the game since its inception.

A college teammate of mine was converted to a pitcher his second year of organized ball during the 80's. During his first spring training as a pitcher, a pitching instructor taught him how to throw some sort of spitball. My teammate told me that every pitcher in their system got the same instruction. If you could make it work great. Why wouldn't a major league pitcher doctor baseballs if they have been given free reign for several years?

[Mike in STL]

Want to speed up pace of play? Kick the Red Sox out of MLB. Have had MLB Network on in the background and just realized at the 3 hour mark they are still only in the bottom of the 6th.

 

Granted it's an 8-8 game, but the O's 18-5 game on Sunday took 3 hours and 10 minutes. 

 

Red Sox games are always slow as molasses. 

[BSLRoseKatz]

He Made Sticky Stuff for MLB Pitchers for 15 Years. Now He's Speaking Out.

[BSLRoseKatz]

BSL: NL West Thoughts

https://baltimorespo...-west-thoughts/

[Mike in STL]

Big sexy. Still got it.

https://www.si.com/m...-mexican-league

[BSLChrisStoner]

The Ringer: Eight Lingering Questions About MLB’s Crackdown on Sticky Stuff

[Russ]

Pujols since signing with the Dodgers - 273/314/530 5 HR

[Mike in STL]

Kershaw usually sports a pretty filthy hat. Pitching tonight. Hat looks like it's fresh out the box. 

[Mike in STL]

Pujols since signing with the Dodgers - 273/314/530 5 HR

Impressive since he has to play the field now and LA isn't conducive to HRs. 

 

What's in the water in Anaheim. Trout is generational. Ohtani doing crazy things. Angels barely even relevant in that division. I know Trout's been on the shelf, but they were below .500 before that. 

[Mike in STL]

Speaking of Pujols...

Sits with 672 homers. If he doesn't hang it up at years end, he's going to be close to some giant HR milestones. 700 would be well within reach in 2022. 714 would be attainable in 2022 if he has quite a resurgence. It's a steep climb to the top from there. But to be that close, I'd have to be dying in order to walk away at that point. And a team looking for a boost in ticket sales would be foolish not to want him for that countdown to 700, 714, perhaps more.

To think Covid and the shortened 2020 season robbed him of 15-20 homers. We'd be counting down to 700 right now and legit talking about does he have 2 years left in the tank?

No one is going to be close until Stanton, Trout, maybe.

Active HR leaders:

Pujols - 672 age 41
Miggy Cabrera - 492, age 38 (ties Gehrig and McGriff with his next HR)
Nelson Cruz - 431, age 40 (tied Ripken with his HR tonight)
Robinson Cano - 334, age 38
Giancarlo Stanton - 324, age 31. He has been a Yankee for almost 3 full seasons (shortened 2020, halfway-ish through 2021) but only has 57 homers for them. Pujols had 408 homers entering his age 31 season. But Stanton's power is off the charts. If he stayed healthy for say, six straight seasons, 275 HRs in that span is more than realistic. Talking 600 homers at age 38. Pujols had 614 entering age 38.
Justin Upton - 321, age 33
Evan Longoria - 313, age 35
Mike Trout - 310, age 29. Probably reaches 320-330 by seasons end depending on health. But we're a whole decade away from talking about challenging Willie Mays territory, maybe 700+ HRs.
Joey Votto - 303, age 37
Chris Davis - 295, age 35
Ryan Zimmerman - 278, age 36

The next 6 guys on the list (Goldschmidt, Freeman, McCutchen, J.D. Martinez, Carlos Santana, Arenado) are all 30 and over and in the 200s.

Then you get to Bryce Harper who peaked very early. 240 HRs, age 28. Only has hit more than 30 HRs in a year three times. Won't likely get there this year either. Compare to Pujols who hit 30 or more in each of his first 12 years in the majors.

After Harper, Rizzo and Donaldson are over 30, then it's Machado, similar to Harper. 232 HRs, age 28.

After 55 more guys who have less homers, and are all over age 27, You get to Cody Bellinger. 124 HRs, age 25. Pujols had 191 HRs in his first 5 years. Injuries keeping Bellinger off the field a lot in his fifth season now. If he returns to get to 130, he can regain the Pujols pace if he stays healthy for the next decade. Pujols had some injuries, later on, maybe Bellinger gets his out of the way early.

Go all the way down to Ronald Acuna. He's got 99 HRs in his first 373 games. Pujols had 114 HRs in his first 475 games.
Acuna - 1 HR per 3.76 games.
Pujols - 1 HR per 4.17 games.


TL:DR

If Pujols hangs it up after this year, we are reliant on Stanton's health, and waiting 6+ years before sniffing 600 HRs and then realistically talking about if he can reach Babe/Aaron/Bonds territory in a decade. (As long as he's a Yankee, I hope he doesn't come close).

We're a decade away from having this conversation about Trout as well.

Harper and Machado are great hitters, but it doesn't show up enough in the HR column to be factors in the all-time conversation.

15 years away from Cody Bellinger possibly being in the conversation. 17 years away from Ronald Acuna. Obviously too early to tell on others and both of these guys have plenty of time to fall out of the conversation.

Anyone else you can think of is too old with not enough HRs.

So if Pujols doesn't have a resurgence, there are IMO four guys in MLB that can challenge the all-time record, and it isn't happening anytime soon.

[BSLChrisStoner]

The Ringer: What Will Happen After MLB’s Sticky Stuff Crackdown?

[ivanbalt]

Impressive since he has to play the field now and LA isn't conducive to HRs. 

 

What's in the water in Anaheim. Trout is generational. Ohtani doing crazy things. Angels barely even relevant in that division. I know Trout's been on the shelf, but they were below .500 before that. 

They have ~$51 million going to Upton and Rendon who are combined like .1 WAR.  Whenever Trout retires, MLB needs to do a case study on how LAA couldn't build a team around one of the best ever.

[Mike in STL]

They have ~$51 million going to Upton and Rendon who are combined like .1 WAR. Whenever Trout retires, MLB needs to do a case study on how LAA couldn't build a team around one of the best ever.

I guess after Ohtani, having Bundy and Cobb as your 2nd and 3rd pitchers is an ingredient for a disappointing season. Speaking from experience.

[ivanbalt]

I guess after Ohtani, having Bundy and Cobb as your 2nd and 3rd pitchers is an ingredient for a disappointing season. Speaking from experience.

Bundy is their highest paid starting pitcher at $8+ million.  Meanwhile they have $88 million going to Upton/Rendon/Trout...

[You Play to Win the Game]

Bundy is their highest paid starting pitcher at $8+ million. Meanwhile they have $88 million going to Upton/Rendon/Trout...

If you annualized the posting fee for Ohtani, he's right around that figure too.