Fair-weather ex-diehard
Posted 22 October 2014 - 09:23 PM
I think at some point the academic side of one of these big football schools--especially one with a good academic reputation like Michigan or Cal or even UNC--is going to get fed up with scandals like this and revolt.
Well, all they have to do is stick to their own standards... GT pretty much does (although not like they used to, back when everybody needed 3 terms of calculus), which is why it's always an uphill battle there vs UGA...
"The only change is that baseball has turned Paige from a second-class citizen to a second-class immortal." - Satchel Paige
HOF
Posted 22 October 2014 - 09:27 PM
Well, all they have to do is stick to their own standards... GT pretty much does (although not like they used to, back when everybody needed 3 terms of calculus), which is why it's always an uphill battle there vs UGA...
It isn't just letting bad students in, or making up fake classes, though. Even the good schools offer all kinds of things to athletes--especially revenue-sport athletes--to help them academically above and beyond what "normal" students do.
Fair-weather ex-diehard
Posted 22 October 2014 - 09:39 PM
It isn't just letting bad students in, or making up fake classes, though. Even the good schools offer all kinds of things to athletes--especially revenue-sport athletes--to help them academically above and beyond what "normal" students do.
When Bobby Ross was at GT, if a football player cut a class, the next day he had to wear a white shirt and tie, and some assistant would *lead* him to class pulling on the tie like it was a leash... not many guys missed class twice...
"The only change is that baseball has turned Paige from a second-class citizen to a second-class immortal." - Satchel Paige
Fair-weather ex-diehard
Posted 22 October 2014 - 09:51 PM
From the NYT story linked to earlier:
"One thing was made abundantly clear in the report: The fake classes went a long way toward helping athletes overwhelmed by academic demands to remain eligible to play on the Tar Heels teams."
Maybe some were "overwhelmed by academic demands"... and maybe some just didn't give a f***.
"The only change is that baseball has turned Paige from a second-class citizen to a second-class immortal." - Satchel Paige
HOF
Posted 22 October 2014 - 09:53 PM
Sigh...
HOF
Posted 23 October 2014 - 12:12 AM
Meh... it'd be silly to pretend like it's not happening almost everywhere. And I don't even care. They aren't there for an education anyway, in most cases. Time to call a spade a spade and move on with this nonsense.Sigh...
Moderator
Posted 23 October 2014 - 07:52 AM
Meh... it'd be silly to pretend like it's not happening almost everywhere. And I don't even care. They aren't there for an education anyway, in most cases. Time to call a spade a spade and move on with this nonsense.
Wasn't part of the report that 1/2 of the students involved in this were non-athletes?
Owner
Posted 23 October 2014 - 08:49 AM
Wasn't part of the report that 1/2 of the students involved in this were non-athletes?
Yeah..
Sports on Earth: Mass Fraud at UNC
http://www.sportsone...neth-wainwright
These are the facts: the University of North Carolina provided a sham education to 3,100 students, 47 percent of whom were athletes, over an 18 year span.
HOF
Posted 23 October 2014 - 10:50 AM
Meh... it'd be silly to pretend like it's not happening almost everywhere. And I don't even care. They aren't there for an education anyway, in most cases. Time to call a spade a spade and move on with this nonsense.
The entire NCAA argument about amateurism is based around receiving a real education as compensation for play. That's why revelations like this matter.
HOF
Posted 23 October 2014 - 12:59 PM
Meh... it'd be silly to pretend like it's not happening almost everywhere. And I don't even care. They aren't there for an education anyway, in most cases. Time to call a spade a spade and move on with this nonsense.
I agree...Just not looking forward to the smugness of the "ABC" crowd.
"Of course that's how they've been this good for so long"...
awesome.
^^ That's my name. Don't wear it out.
Posted 23 October 2014 - 04:13 PM
I'm trying to be anything but "meh"...and I can't.
So...meh.
HOF
Posted 23 October 2014 - 05:50 PM
I agree...Just not looking forward to the smugness of the "ABC" crowd.
"Of course that's how they've been this good for so long"...
awesome.
Fair-weather ex-diehard
Posted 23 October 2014 - 06:34 PM
The entire NCAA argument about amateurism is based around receiving a real education as compensation for play. That's why revelations like this matter.
It's just another brick in the wall... that's coming down around their ears...
"The only change is that baseball has turned Paige from a second-class citizen to a second-class immortal." - Satchel Paige
CFB Analyst
Posted 24 October 2014 - 02:30 AM
Owner
Posted 24 October 2014 - 09:41 AM
I do think this happens in a lot of places, but UNC is the place which has been caught. Really it should be a death penalty for the UNC programs, with records wiped out. 3000 students, 1500 athletes... if you aren't crushing that, why not?
Separately, agree with BOB completely here.
Moderator
Posted 24 October 2014 - 09:43 AM
I've said it before....stop putting these kids who have zero interest, and in many cases lack the aptitude, in regular college classes to earn a degree. Giving them degrees only cheapens the ones that were earned by other students (sorry, Epic, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that).
Instead give them the option of taking specialized classes that will assist them in areas of their chosen field, athletics. Teach them basic physiology and how it pertains to fitness and performance. Teach them about the importance of good nutrition, and what foods they should eat for certain results. Hell, have a Home-Ec type of class and teach them how to prepare the food. If they don't make it as pros, and as we know nearly all of them won't, they'll at least have some background to be a trainer or a coach, or something.
And as long as college football is earning schools tens of millions per year, it's not going away. Many schools have invested way too much money into their athletics infrastructure to just wave goodbye to that revenue stream.....they'd go bankrupt and be stuck with enormous white elephants. Imagine 100,000 seat stadiums hosting events no bigger than intramural flag football games....not happening.
Simply let them major in Sports. As you said, classes can include Home-Ec types, physiology, health & fitness, nutrition. I would also add some personal finance courses. (Frankly even non-student-athletes need this.)
HOF
Posted 24 October 2014 - 11:08 AM
A question I was thinking about last night was, are all of the athletes involved football and basketball players? Or, are there baseball/softball players and swimmers and track and soccer and field hockey athletes involved as well?
Because if there are, what does that say about the NCAA in regards to overall education of the students in athletic programs?
^^ That's my name. Don't wear it out.
Posted 24 October 2014 - 12:44 PM
I've said it before....stop putting these kids who have zero interest, and in many cases lack the aptitude, in regular college classes to earn a degree. Giving them degrees only cheapens the ones that were earned by other students (sorry, Epic, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that).
Yeah, we're going to have to, because trying to judge the worth of one's degree based on the degrees their athletes "earned" just doesn't make sense to me. If you're majoring in classes where the sham ones are involved, sure...I got you. But if you're completely removed from all of it, absolutely not.
In short, if I found out that -every- Terp football and basketball player took sham classes for the past 20 years, and somebody I might be hiring came from the University of Maryland, the stuff that happened there would have no bearing whatsoever on my decision. I mean, I'd joke with them about it, but that's about the scope of it.
^^ That's my name. Don't wear it out.
Posted 24 October 2014 - 12:45 PM
Simply let them major in Sports. As you said, classes can include Home-Ec types, physiology, health & fitness, nutrition. I would also add some personal finance courses. (Frankly even non-student-athletes need this.)
If they want to, yes. If they want to be truly educated, they can do that, too.
I don't see why this isn't a solution. What's with the facade at this point?
Moderator
Posted 24 October 2014 - 12:47 PM
Simply let them major in Sports. As you said, classes can include Home-Ec types, physiology, health & fitness, nutrition. I would also add some personal finance courses. (Frankly even non-student-athletes need this.)
If they want to, yes. If they want to be truly educated, they can do that, too.
I don't see why this isn't a solution. What's with the facade at this point?
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