107 replies to this topic

[bnickle]

Itll be interesting to see if the Os give him one more year. On one hand there is no one in the organizational minors even close to being ready at SS. Nor at 3b if you dont think Mountcastle can play there. Plus, his raise in arb would be minimal. On the other hand, you could find an all glove no hit SS who would be cheaper than Beckham in the offseason

[CA-ORIOLE]

They will not give him 5 mil. We will be too tight. Possible he comes back for less, it will depend on if he has any interest and/or how much they will focus on defense at SS next year. He 's not a viable utility player imo. He needs to settle at 2B or SS and play there regularly. If given that opportunity and healthy, I think he could replicate close to what he did last year. Villar could potentially move to SS but I'm not sure he'd be better than Beckham there defensiely. Maybe he'll make less errors if that's your thing. Villar should be the second baseman next year (if they're smart about it). If they could get Iglesias or someone similar in the 2-3 mil range, I suppose they'll go that direction.

[MDtransplant757]

Beckham has actually had positive defensive value at 3B. I'd play him there in the future, and try and find a JJ Hardy all glove no bat type. 

[CA-ORIOLE]

Beckham has actually had positive defensive value at 3B. I'd play him there in the future, and try and find a JJ Hardy all glove no bat type. 

Too small a SS to mean anything. He's not a third baseman.  

[Mackus]

Too small a SS to mean anything. He's not a third baseman.

These sentences seem a bit contradictory, no?

[CA-ORIOLE]

These sentences seem a bit contradictory, no?

Could be.

[CA-ORIOLE]

10 errors in his first 17 games after coming back from the DL and adjusting back at SS. 1 Error in his last 19 games at SS by my count.  

[Il BuonO]

Too small a SS to mean anything. He's not a third baseman.  

  

These sentences seem a bit contradictory, no?

Evaluating his tools in the IF, 3B is not his spot. He has poor hand action and his arm is below average, not a good combination for the hot corner. If I were to keep him in the IF I’d try him at 2B where you could still take advantage of his above average range and there are similar angles off the bat to SS. He also has more experience there than he did at 3B.

But I think his athleticism lends itself to him in the OF. Of course, the Orioles have an abundance of guys there coming up in the next couple years.

[MDtransplant757]

  

Evaluating his tools in the IF, 3B is not his spot. He has poor hand action and his arm is below average, not a good combination for the hot corner. If I were to keep him in the IF I’d try him at 2B where you could still take advantage of his above average range and there are similar angles off the bat to SS. He also has more experience there than he did at 3B.

But I think his athleticism lends itself to him in the OF. Of course, the Orioles have an abundance of guys there coming up in the next couple years.

 

I think that's where he'll end up, mainly depending on where Mountcastle ends up defensively

[birdwatcher55]

He'll be somewhere else next year in my opinion. There's more salary to be cut.

[CA-ORIOLE]

10 errors in his first 17 games after coming back from the DL and adjusting back at SS. 1 Error in his last 19 games at SS by my count.  

10 errors in his first 17 games coming back from DL as starting SS. 2 errors in his last 28 games as starting SS. 

[Crouseman]

10 errors in his first 17 games coming back from DL as starting SS. 2 errors in his last 28 games as starting SS. 

I had been in the camp to non-tender Beckham.  But as you state, he hasn't been bad since getting his footing back at SS.  We'll have so few vets next year, I'd bring him back.  Maybe he can build some trade value.  But I'd also sign a good defensive SS as a back-up. 

[BobPhelan]

Non-tendered, officially a free agent.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Too bad with the injures and Buck screwing him over on the position change.  I hope he gets a chance to play SS or maybe 2b somewhere full time next year. I know he was considered a problem child with attitude issues at TB but he seemed have straightened out and tried to make a go of it here. Still a lot of talent there imo. 

[Mike B]

Too bad with the injures and Buck screwing him over on the position change.  I hope he gets a chance to play SS or maybe 2b somewhere full time next year. I know he was considered a problem child with attitude issues at TB but he seemed have straightened out and tried to make a go of it here. Still a lot of talent there imo. 

I do not see him as a SS on the major league level.  He has questionable hands and lacks timing on his throws.  I think he has value as a super sub type, but I would not want him playing to many games as a SS.

[Mike B]

10 errors in his first 17 games coming back from DL as starting SS. 2 errors in his last 28 games as starting SS. 

IMO, it is about more than errors.  Range and throwing IMO, were lacking.

[CA-ORIOLE]

, it is about more than errors.  Range and throwing IMO, were lacking.

Beckham's range and athletic ability aren't at issue. When you've played near average defense with below average fielding percentage it essentially tells you as much. Throwing certainly is an issue (some of which is just poor judgement trying to make a play he realistically can't). Consistency is an issue and focus is sometimes an issue. There are other things he can improve on (arguably did improve on from what I saw when he first got here and was playing the position regularly in 2017). In the end it's about converting batted ball into outs. He's shown he can do that at an acceptable/average/near average level over an extended period of time and dedicated to the position analytically and imo as well. Granted he's a guy that needs to hit because his glove isn't going to carry him ... and the are issue there as well .... even if the talent/ability is there. If he had put up an OPS closer to 750 than 650, I think he'd have been tendered. 

 

I thin he's capable, if healthy, of another 3+ -4 WAR season (maybe a few) at the SS position (given another opportunity). That said the SS position looks pretty deep right now overall and guys with more certainty. He may not get another chance .which is why last year sucked with the injury and the position change. Too bad. I doubt he'll be a very good utility player. 

[Mike B]

Beckham's range and athletic ability aren't at issue. When you've played near average defense with below average fielding percentage it essentially tells you as much. Throwing certainly is an issue (some of which is just poor judgement trying to make a play he realistically can't). Consistency is an issue and focus is sometimes an issue. There are other things he can improve on (arguably did improve on from what I saw when he first got here and was playing the position regularly in 2017). In the end it's about converting batted ball into outs. He's shown he can do that at an acceptable/average/near average level over an extended period of time and dedicated to the position analytically and imo as well. Granted he's a guy that needs to hit because his glove isn't going to carry him ... and the are issue there as well .... even if the talent/ability is there. If he had put up an OPS closer to 750 than 650, I think he'd have been tendered. 

 

I thin he's capable, if healthy, of another 3+ -4 WAR season (maybe a few) at the SS position (given another opportunity). That said the SS position looks pretty deep right now overall and guys with more certainty. He may not get another chance .which is why last year sucked with the injury and the position change. Too bad. I doubt he'll be a very good utility player. 

We will agree to disagree, I guess.  Been watching great shortstops in this town for many years, and Beckham is not one of them.   He has zero in the way of a time clock.   The position change in part, came because Beckham was not a full time SS.

[CA-ORIOLE]

We will agree to disagree, I guess.  Been watching great shortstops in this town for many years, and Beckham is not one of them.   He has zero in the way of a time clock.   The position change in part, came because Beckham was not a full time SS.

Yep. No one ever implied Beckham was a great SS compared to past O's at the position. I think that's part of the problem/perception. He was objectively an adequate/near average defender prior to last year and for 2017. He was objectively an above average player for the  position in 2017. While we'll never know all the factors and logic that went into the position change last year., a lot of people thought it  was ill advised at the time. Buck's public explanation was poor and inadequate. and it  (objectively) turned out as poorly, if not worse  than people thought it would.

 

Other than that, I think you're older than me and I respect that, but I've been watching and following this game quite awhile myself. 

[Mike B]

Yep. No one ever implied Beckham was a great SS compared to past O's at the position. I think that's part of the problem/perception. He was objectively an adequate/near average defender prior to last year and for 2017. He was objectively an above average player for the  position in 2017. While we'll never know all the factors and logic that went into the position change last year., a lot of people thought it  was ill advised at the time. Buck's public explanation was poor and inadequate. and it  (objectively) turned out as poorly, if not worse  than people thought it would.

 

Other than that, I think you're older than me and I respect that, but I've been watching and following this game quite awhile myself. 

CA, I was not trying to be nasty in any way.  If I came off that way, I am sorry.   I am not sure I have ever seen a SS miss time his throws to first base or mis-judge when he should unload the fastball and not.   I think the, Rays felt the same way, they went out and got Hechavarria from Miami and moved Beckham to second base.   

I really don't think it was an experiment with Buck, I think he looked at Beckham as a mediocre defender with an average arm.  I think he thought Manny gave him a chance to have a plus defender at SS.  On that, he was wrong.