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#201 Mackus

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Posted 21 July 2022 - 12:26 PM

How exactly can we shut Wells or any other pitcher down.

 

Do we play a man down, or fake an injury?

 

Option them to Norfolk



#202 Mike B

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Posted 21 July 2022 - 01:19 PM

Option them to Norfolk

I guess, but that would tick the players off.


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#203 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 03 August 2022 - 10:30 AM

Yikes



#204 NewMarketSean

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Posted 03 August 2022 - 10:32 AM

I'm selling my DL Hall stock. He can't throw strikes. Sounds like another Tanner Scott.


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#205 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 03 August 2022 - 11:05 AM

When he's on he's pretty impressive.

 

118 k's, and 60 hits allowed in 72.1 innings tells a lot. 

 

Maybe those 72 innings tell something as well...   31 innings in '21, obviously none in '20, 80.2 in '19...   first year back pitching every 5th, and getting himself through a season this year.

 

He's got 3 games where he's allowed at-least 5 runs (in short work too). Seems like there must be some days where he just doesn't have it, and hasn't figured out how to pitch without his best stuff. 

And yeah...  42 walks is ridiculous. 



I said it a good while back, I'd have had him up in the Majors piggybacking with Wells.
I'd still bring him up (after his next quality start), and use him out of the pen every 5th day for 3 innings.... get his feet wet, limit his innings, give him some experience. 

I also kind of lean to believing he's going to ultimately be a reliever...  but I'd be going into '23 still looking at him as a starter.  If he doesn't break camp with the O's, he figures to be up starting at some point pretty early. 

Next year he is going to need to show some higher consistency to believe in him as a starter, but I'd be giving him every opportunity.
Hopefully he's ready to take a leap next year, after getting through this year, and gaining the experience he should be acquiring. 



#206 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 03 August 2022 - 12:50 PM

Ive told you guys all year he is a RP. Hopefully a high leverage dominant one



#207 NewMarketSean

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Posted 03 August 2022 - 12:56 PM

Sure, use him out of the BP. MLB teams will feast on him though.


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#208 Mike B

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Posted 12 August 2022 - 02:42 PM

Hall may make his debut this weekend.

 

Roch is quoting sources on Twitter.

 

 
 
 
 
 
s6UFeUjH_normal.jpg
 
Source: DL Hall is joining #orioles in St. Petersburg

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#209 Mike B

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Posted 12 August 2022 - 03:18 PM

More from Roch...

right now there is no starter announced for tomorrow.

https://www.masnspor...omoting-dl-hall


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#210 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 15 August 2022 - 08:45 AM

MASN: Holt has "no doubt" that Hall's stuff will play in the majors

https://www.masnspor...y-in-the-majors



#211 BobPhelan

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Posted 15 August 2022 - 08:49 AM

@enosarris

 

"His locations were terrible but Hall’s debut on the stuff list is lolololol and absolutely translated well from this minor league number. (Doc updated)"

 

"I didn’t want to say it because it’s one start but he’s the number one starter by stuff plus for now! And like number 120 by location plus"

 

https://twitter.com/...i5utM7SHfa0tZKQ


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#212 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 15 August 2022 - 08:50 AM

@enosarris

 

"His locations were terrible but Hall’s debut on the stuff list is lolololol and absolutely translated well from this minor league number. (Doc updated)"

 

"I didn’t want to say it because it’s one start but he’s the number one starter by stuff plus for now! And like number 120 by location plus"

 

https://twitter.com/...i5utM7SHfa0tZKQ

:roll:  

 

The only thing I saw that annoyed me more than the Elias thread in the last 12 hours



#213 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 15 August 2022 - 08:53 AM

How does "stuff plus" work? 

 

EDIT: good article on it here The Pitcher Report: What exactly is Stuff+? Featuring Rich Hill, Sam Long, and more - The Athletic

 

Encouraging to hear from Hall. It's hard to know how big an impact nerves had on things, but I think in Hall's case, it was super clear it was a big one.

 

FWIW, Fangraphs had his pitch values as follows (again just 1 start, 1 nervous start):

-Fastball -2.73

-Change -0.13

-Slider +0.96

-Curve -1.79



#214 BobPhelan

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Posted 15 August 2022 - 08:56 AM

:roll:  

 

The only thing I saw that annoyed me more than the Elias thread in the last 12 hours

 

You don't buy into stuff +?



#215 BobPhelan

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Posted 15 August 2022 - 09:02 AM

How does "stuff plus" work? 

 

EDIT: good article on it here The Pitcher Report: What exactly is Stuff+? Featuring Rich Hill, Sam Long, and more - The Athletic

 

Encouraging to hear from Hall. It's hard to know how big an impact nerves had on things, but I think in Hall's case, it was super clear it was a big one.

 

https://www.drivelin...h-pitch-models/

 

Basically uses data based on velocity, pitch shape, inverted vertical break, attack angle, etc to put a number similar to OPS+ or wRC+ for pitchers "stuff". 

 

Felix Bautista has the best Stuff+ in baseball at 160.7. Hall is at 142.4 after his start and that is with what we were saying is probably not his best fastball. His Location+ was 95.2, Bautista's is 95.9.



#216 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 15 August 2022 - 09:04 AM

You don't buy into stuff +?

I have to read that article above and look into it more. Im sure its a neat tool. Probably a pretty accurate one overall. I just wasnt overly impressed with Hall's stuff the other day. THats not to say he doesnt have great stuff but Im not sure how his performance the other day resulted in such good numbers.



#217 BobPhelan

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Posted 15 August 2022 - 09:11 AM

I have to read that article above and look into it more. Im sure its a neat tool. Probably a pretty accurate one overall. I just wasnt overly impressed with Hall's stuff the other day. THats not to say he doesnt have great stuff but Im not sure how his performance the other day resulted in such good numbers.

 

Here is a link to a tweet thread by someone who knows what they're talking about tracking Hall's start: https://twitter.com/...-u4yVIKGtxp0Lrg


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#218 Mackus

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Posted 15 August 2022 - 09:12 AM

How does Stuff+ correlate to other numbers that are more raw-ly indicative of pitcher performance?  Can't read the article Ricker linked.



#219 JeremyStrain

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Posted 15 August 2022 - 09:12 AM

I have to read that article above and look into it more. Im sure its a neat tool. Probably a pretty accurate one overall. I just wasnt overly impressed with Hall's stuff the other day. THats not to say he doesnt have great stuff but Im not sure how his performance the other day resulted in such good numbers.


Like Bob said, it's basically the culmination of those advanced stats we don't get but front offices do. We said all draft season, we can see that they are using some specific stats to target because all their picks follow a model and then have similar performance traits, we just don't know exactly what they are.

 

This is kind of a short hand summary, like WAR, but for the individual traits to give you something to model. Now some teams may value spin rates more than movement on a fastball, or stuff like that, which makes the overall stuff + harder to use, but basically, a high score there means they've got at least one really nasty pitch, and a couple other dirty ones too. Like Felix has the hands down dirtiest pitch in MLB which is why his score is so high, they seem to get kinda weighted if they have one REALLY nasty pitch, but it's all still new and not a lot of info so that's just me drawing conclusions for the moment.

 

But as all of us have seen time and time again, baseball is full of guys with really nasty tools, and lackluster command that just never achieve what they should have.


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#220 BobPhelan

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Posted 15 August 2022 - 09:23 AM

How does Stuff+ correlate to other numbers that are more raw-ly indicative of pitcher performance?  Can't read the article Ricker linked.

 

Top 10 pitchers in Eno's Stuff+ model:

 

1. Felix Bautista - 160.7 Stuff+, 95.9 Location+, 113.1 Pitching + (Basically the first two combined)

2. Calvin Faucher - 150.1, 98.3, 108.6

3. Paul Sewald - 149.4, 101, 115.2

4. Pete Fairbanks - 143.5, 107.3, 122.6

5. Emmanuel Clase - 142.8, 103.4, 113.3

6. DL Hall - 142.4, 95.2, 104.4

7. Jake Cousins - 139, 91.6, 110.8

8. Ryne Stanek - 138.2, 93.1, 103

9. Clay Holmes - 137.6, 95.1, 103.9

10. Matt Brash - 136.9, 95.5, 104.8

 

Top 5 starting pitchers:

 

1. Spencer Strider - 136.6, 100.9, 109.8

2. Jacob deGrom - 131.6, 109.8, 119.8

3. Hunter Greene - 131.4, 99.5, 106.5

4. Corbin Burnes - 129.8, 101.7, 107.8

5. Gerrit Cole - 126.7, 103.2, 112.1






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