413 replies to this topic

[BSLChrisStoner]

Chris are you advocating for people to be able to celebrate as they like or are you saying baseball should actively encourage creating "heels" like WWF?

 

I'm cool with most outward celebrations in baseball, and would like it if players in general were a bit more animated, but I do think there is a line where it goes from celebrating your success to showing up the opponent.  Bautista is constantly on the wrong side of that line, IMO. 

 

I think at the minimum, MLB should not discourage personality.  And that they should encourage the players to police themselves.

 

I don't think personalities should be manufactured. Allow the players to be themselves.

 

I'll take it a step further, with a debate we've had before.  My normal opinion has been that I don't think players should be on Twitter, etc. That they should go the Bull Durham route, and say nothing but dumb cliches.

 

While that personally appeals more to 'me', I think the game is probably better served by players having that interaction with fans, not being robots, and saying what's on their minds.

[SportsGuy]

If he stopped and did the stanky leg in the middle
Of the base paths, I wouldn't haven't cared.

The fact that I dislike him and Toronto has nothing to do with anything but obviously that is effecting the opinion some.

[bnickle]

Baseball is the purest Big 4 sport we have left. Keep it that way. IM not saying you dont play the game with emotion. Im saying you conduct yourself professionally. The look at me antics are disgusting. Speaks to our culture.  When guys slide into second after a double and point to their benches thats fine. When they get to the dugout and celebrate with their teammates fine. A bat flip is an individual, look at me act that shows up the other team.  Same thing with a pitcher getting a K and doing some stupid dance or staring at the hitter. No need for that BS. That isn't celebrating. That's saying look at me. Im awesome. Im special. 

[Mackus]

But what if you are awesome?

[BSLChrisStoner]

Baseball is the purest Big 4 sport we have left. Keep it that way. IM not saying you dont play the game with emotion. Im saying you conduct yourself professionally. The look at me antics are disgusting. Speaks to our culture.  When guys slide into second after a double and point to their benches thats fine. When they get to the dugout and celebrate with their teammates fine. A bat flip is an individual, look at me act that shows up the other team.  Same thing with a pitcher getting a K and doing some stupid dance or staring at the hitter. No need for that BS. That isn't celebrating. That's saying look at me. Im awesome. Im special. 

 

Yeah... I happen to agree with this pov, but I still don't think it should be discouraged. Let the players be themselves, and deal with any repercussions for their actions on the field between the lines.

[Mackus]

I don't love encouraging them to settle things between the lines.  I think we need less throwing at hitters, less spikes high slides, less brawls.  You wouldn't encourage NFL players to "settle it on the field" and go for a block on the knees the next play if a guy's sack dance is deemed insulting to the QB or lineman.

 

Get rid of many of the unwritten rules, at least in terms of decorum, and you probably lose a lot of that.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I don't love encouraging them to settle things between the lines.  I think we need less throwing at hitters, less spikes high slides, less brawls.  You wouldn't encourage NFL players to "settle it on the field" and go for a block on the knees the next play if a guy's sack dance is deemed insulting to the QB or lineman.

 

Get rid of many of the unwritten rules, at least in terms of decorum, and you probably lose a lot of that.

 

Maybe. Have to think about that further. There are lines for everything.

I thought Utley's slide was out of bounds, because he went high, and was out of contact with the bag.  But I love guys who go in hard regularly (Jones... liked how Belle used to scare Middle Infielders).

 

I don't have a problem with batters being hit, but don't like it when pitchers go high.

 

[bnickle]

The unwritten rules are the only things saving baseball right now. 

[SportsGuy]

The unwritten rules are the only things saving baseball right now.

Ugh...they are horrible.

The idea that you stop trying to win because you are up 6 runs in the 7th inning is a joke.

[DJ MC]

Baseball is the purest Big 4 sport we have left. Keep it that way. IM not saying you dont play the game with emotion. Im saying you conduct yourself professionally. The look at me antics are disgusting. Speaks to our culture.  When guys slide into second after a double and point to their benches thats fine. When they get to the dugout and celebrate with their teammates fine. A bat flip is an individual, look at me act that shows up the other team.  Same thing with a pitcher getting a K and doing some stupid dance or staring at the hitter. No need for that BS. That isn't celebrating. That's saying look at me. Im awesome. Im special. 

 

What the fuck does "pure" even mean in baseball? I mean, go read the rules of the sport in, say, 1880, and tell me how pure the sport is today.

 

Baseball isn't the most pure sport, it's the most conservative sport. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but very often it leads to a lot of unnecessary BS when things need to change. This is one of those times.

[SportsGuy]

I talked about it last week but until you have seen it, I don't think people understand the Latin American culture.

[bnickle]

What the fuck does "pure" even mean in baseball? I mean, go read the rules of the sport in, say, 1880, and tell me how pure the sport is today.

 

Baseball isn't the most pure sport, it's the most conservative sport. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but very often it leads to a lot of unnecessary BS when things need to change. This is one of those times.

The fact that you think things need to change in baseball absolutely convinces me things are great. 

[bnickle]

Ugh...they are horrible.

The idea that you stop trying to win because you are up 6 runs in the 7th inning is a joke.

 Obviously, you dont stop trying to win at any point. I dont think guys are going up to the plate and not trying to get hits up 10 runs in the 9th inning. They dont stop at first when they should get to 2nd or 3rd. You're overstating things. 

[Mike in STL]

I think we are getting into two different topics. If a batter wants to gloat when he homers, fine. But the retaliation isnt hitting him. Its striking him out, or the next guy, and gloating back at them.

More personality will bring much needed energy to the game, and get youths more involved. Throwing at a guy because it sparks energy in the game isnt personality though. It is not something little leaguers should emmulate.

Like I've said in the past, you can try to aim below the shoulders. Doesnt mean it would hit him there. Pretty sure if Ubaldo tried to hit someone in the small of the back it would either hit him in the head or ankles.

Dont even flirt with season ending, career ending, life ending injuries should that ball slip when you go for a plunk in the back.

[SportsGuy]

 Obviously, you dont stop trying to win at any point. I dont think guys are going up to the plate and not trying to get hits up 10 runs in the 9th inning. They dont stop at first when they should get to 2nd or 3rd. You're overstating things. 

But they don't want you bunting, stealing bases, etc...that's moronic.

You keep doing what you need to do to win.

Unwritten rules are awful.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I'd be pretty weirded out if I saw a LLWS kid doing the throat slashing gesture.

[bnickle]

Yeah, just what I want to see at my local Little League Field. Kids flipping bats god knows where and the pitchers staring at the other kid when he strikes them out. Wow. 

[BSLChrisStoner]

Yeah, just what I want to see at my local Little League Field. Kids flipping bats god knows where and the pitchers staring at the other kid when he strikes them out. Wow. 

 

Is that what you see in the LLWS?  No, but you do see more personality from those teams. Same thing in the College World Series.

You keyed solely on the idea of guys doing things that could be lumped in as personal attention grabs...  but at those levels you see team enthusiasm which is discouraged that the MLB level.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Is that what you see in the LLWS? No, but you do see more personality from those teams. Same thing in the College World Series.

You keyed solely on the idea of guys doing things that could be lumped in as personal attention grabs... but at those levels you see team enthusiasm which is discouraged that the MLB level.

I think glorifying the sort of behavior you're endorsing at the pro level is bound to trickle down.

Children are sort of impressionable. Especially with their idols.

[bnickle]

Is that what you see in the LLWS?  No, but you do see more personality from those teams. Same thing in the College World Series.

You keyed solely on the idea of guys doing things that could be lumped in as personal attention grabs...  but at those levels you see team enthusiasm which is discouraged that the MLB level.

Thats exactly what you see and are going to see more of at the youth levels. Kids think that bat flip was the greatest thing ever. Will emulate it next spring by throwing the bat as high and far as they can when they hit a ball hard. Hopefully, not killing the kid on deck.