521 replies to this topic

[BSLChrisStoner]

CBS Sports: Several current managers already on the Hall of Fame track

http://www.cbssports...l-of-fame-track

[glenn__davis]

I gotta say - I'm fairly shocked.  Not making the playoffs is one thing, but I never expected a Buck-led team to tank like this.  This is about as bad as the year we signed all the Victors.  Not even competitive.  What the heck is going on?  This team is not this bad.

[NewMarketSean]

Buck's time here has followed the script to a tee. He inherited a disaster, made sense of it, took them to the doorstep of the championship, then lost the team. I'd love to think that this team would make the WS after he left but that's not happening here so I guess it's not following the script after all.

[You Play to Win the Game]

This isn't remotely on Buck. Man I might have to avoid O's talk if this is going to be a thing. That's certifiably insane.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Just saw your remark in the game thread. If you're really just asking the question is fair I guess. I mean his past trends are on my radar too. But he's earned the benefit of the doubt for sure either way.

[NewMarketSean]

Completely agreed. Just grasping at straws no matter how hard I need to grasp. Just trying to make sense of this mess.

[glenn__davis]

This isn't remotely on Buck. Man I might have to avoid O's talk if this is going to be a thing. That's certifiably insane.

 

To be clear, I'm not remotely blaming Buck.  I'm just surprised the team is tanking the way it is.

[Mackus]

Tanking implies they are doing it on purpose.  Does anyone actually think that?  They're certainly playing like complete dogshit, I just don't think tanking is the right word to use. 

 

Imploding, perhaps?  This mostly feels self-inflicted.  It's not like we had a rash of injuries in mid-August that sparked this streak.  It's the same guys that were getting the job done to at least a modest degree through mid-August and now the wheels have completely come off.  Those that have struggled all year aren't getting any better (worse perhaps in a few cases) and the guys that have been good are falling off a bit recently.  And while the schedule is getting much harder, that's not nearly a drastic enough change to justify or explain this level of struggle.  Add up all the things that have gone wrong and are going wrong with this team, and it still shouldn't add up to 1-12 or whatever we've been the last couple weeks.

[Mackus]

And as far as Buck is concerned, when did he become an issue for people?  Ridiculous to even suggest he's a root cause of this or is doing something that led to the dip or isn't doing something that would fix it. 

 

I think people constantly make the mistake of thinking things are simple and there is an obvious explanation for why something is going well or going poorly.  It's an incredibly complex mechanism with lots of moving parts.  "Buck has lost them" isn't a good explanation.

[RShack]

People want an explanation that fits on a bumper-sticker...

[NewMarketSean]

It's just interesting. Buck's past has followed a similar script in NY, ARZ and TEX...and so far that script has played out similarly in Baltimore.

 

Not saying he's lost the team or this is his fault. Far from it. Just looking at this bad stretch of baseball and comparing it to those previous experiences.

 

Like I said, it could be grasping at straws...just trying to make sense of all this.

[glenn__davis]

Tanking implies they are doing it on purpose.  Does anyone actually think that?  They're certainly playing like complete dogshit, I just don't think tanking is the right word to use. 

 

I think you can use the word "tanking" either way,  Either way, that's just semantics.  If you want to say imploding, that's fine.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Buck's time here has followed the script to a tee. He inherited a disaster, made sense of it, took them to the doorstep of the championship, then lost the team. 

 

 

Not saying he's lost the team or this is his fault.

 

Does not compute.

 

I'm not really sure what Buck could do - the starting pitching is imploding, the entire lineup is in a slump, and there's no depth anywhere.  I don't see what plan B even would be.  The three catcher gambit was just a cry for help.

[NewMarketSean]

Does not compute.

 

Because you left out the second half of my first post:

 

I'd love to think that this team would make the WS after he left but that's not happening here so I guess it's not following the script after all.

[RShack]

It's just interesting. Buck's past has followed a similar script in NY,

 

What script did he follow in NY?   

[SportsGuy]

Sean's point is right. There has been a consistent pattern with Buck's tenures in other organizations.

It doesn't mean it will happen here or anything like that but you can't bury your head in the sand about it either.

I find it interesting that the talk now is that we need more vet leaders and that is the issue. Isn't Buck supposed to be that? Isn't he supposed to be good enough to rise above all that?

Btw, I think that's just something to lean and isn't really a legit reason why you are losing, so I'm not buying into that theory.

[RShack]

Sean's point is right. There has been a consistent pattern with Buck's tenures in other organizations.

 

What did he do in NY that supposedly fits a pattern?

[Chris B]

The reason they are losing is because the talent on the field is not playoff-adequate.

[SammyBirdland]

I think you can use the word "tanking" either way,  Either way, that's just semantics.  If you want to say imploding, that's fine.

 

My 401k is tanking as we speak. I'm not doing it on purpose.

[Mackus]

The reason they are losing is because the talent on the field is not playoff-adequate.

 

Basically the same talent was playoff-adequate last year. 

 

Last year the same 6 starting pitchers we've had this year pitched to a 3.63 ERA over 956 IP (161 GS).  This season, they've combined for a 4.58 ERA over 735.2 IP (124 GS).

 

I think that's by far the biggest reason for the team's record falling off. 

 

Was anyone's offseason plan to have any less than 4 of those guys in the rotation?  I know many (including myself) suggested trading away a SP for help elsewhere (or salary relief in Ubaldo's case if possible).  Some, but fewer, suggested trading away two of those guys for help elsewhere and signing/trading for a better pitcher to join the rotation.  I can't remember anybody suggesting we only move forward with 3 of the 6 from 2014 and bring in two new (hopefully front-end) SP.