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Buck Showalter


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#421 SportsGuy

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 01:52 PM

Yea, Duensing started the inning to get Carrerra. Obviously there was never any intent in going to Britton unless it was a save situation. Mack is dead on here, it happened so damn fast..

But no manager since is getting beat without their best on the road.

Wade Davis pitched in the 8th last night to get out of the inning where the Cubs tied it,

And somehow they won even without their closer being available. No way!

#422 B00E00N00

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 01:52 PM

Yep, I was just about to say that.  Replacing Reynolds's defense at 3B with Manny's was just a huge improvement.

 

Wilson Betemit was the primary 3B that year and I remember expecting an error every time the ball was hit to him. 



#423 SBTarheel

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 01:58 PM

And somehow they won even without their closer being available. No way!

Ha. it happens..

 

But I really think it's a stretch to say that one move meant that much in terms of the next seasons. We were .5 game back on labor Day, 2017. 

 

Agree to disagree on this one. 


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#424 SportsGuy

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:06 PM

Ha. it happens..

 

But I really think it's a stretch to say that one move meant that much in terms of the next seasons. We were .5 game back on labor Day, 2017. 

 

Agree to disagree on this one. 

I think saying it was the beginning of the end is accurate.

 

There has to be a beginning to an end.  It makes sense that his poor decision there was that starting point.



#425 SBTarheel

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:10 PM

I think saying it was the beginning of the end is accurate.

 

There has to be a beginning to an end.  It makes sense that his poor decision there was that starting point.

Maybe, i just don't see it. Davis stinks, Britton got hurt, we didn't upgrade the rotation, never replaced Markakis & Cruz, Hardy got old....etc. There were so many things that led to the demise that culminated in this season. i just think it's tough to pin it on one thing..

 

Had we won that game in 15 innings, let's say, how is any of this any different? 


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#426 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:10 PM

Not a fan obviously, but he needed to go. Not sure about the issue/decision of coming back in another role, but I think a clean break is the best if not necessary. I think Buck made some nice contributions in the front end of his tenure. I wish him luck. 



#427 SportsGuy

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:15 PM

Maybe, i just don't see it. Davis stinks, Britton got hurt, we didn't upgrade the rotation, never replaced Markakis & Cruz, Hardy got old....etc. There were so many things that led to the demise that culminated in this season. i just think it's tough to pin it on one thing..

 

Had we won that game in 15 innings, let's say, how is any of this any different? 

I think you are arguing 2 different things.

 

There is the team sucking and there is the beginning of the end for Buck himself.

 

I think has had more say in the construction of the roster than most managers do, so therefore I think he deserves some blame.

 

That being said, a lot of what happened isn't his fault...still, sinc the 22-10 start last year, they have been one of the worst teams ever.  Hard to keep someone around after that.



#428 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:18 PM

Wilson Betemit was the primary 3B that year and I remember expecting an error every time the ball was hit to him. 

 

Lol, I forgot about Betemit.  He might have actually been a downgrade from Reynolds, who up to that point was the worst defensive third baseman in baseball.



#429 SBTarheel

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:19 PM

I think you are arguing 2 different things.

 

There is the team sucking and there is the beginning of the end for Buck himself.

 

I think has had more say in the construction of the roster than most managers do, so therefore I think he deserves some blame.

 

That being said, a lot of what happened isn't his fault...still, sinc the 22-10 start last year, they have been one of the worst teams ever.  Hard to keep someone around after that.

Fair enough..My point is just that there were so many factors that led to the demise of the team the past two years. i feel like "Buck not bringing in Britton" was the least of the issues. 

 

 

But say Edwin hits into a Double play and we win the game in the next inning and Zach gets the save,  are  2017 and 18 different? i say probably not. 


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#430 SportsGuy

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:28 PM

Fair enough..My point is just that there were so many factors that led to the demise of the team the past two years. i feel like "Buck not bringing in Britton" was the least of the issues. 

 

 

But say Edwin hits into a Double play and we win the game in the next inning and Zach gets the save,  are  2017 and 18 different? i say probably not. 

Maybe not...but Buck may be given more of a leash to stay if he wanted to.



#431 SBTarheel

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:32 PM

Maybe not...but Buck may be given more of a leash to stay if he wanted to.

The contract would've expired anyway after a 47 win season. i just think a little too much weight was put on the Britton thing. Shit, Matty V. brought it up last night during the broadcast. 

 

it's a fun discussion either way. 


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#432 JTrea81

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:34 PM

The Orioles are finally making the right move two years too late.

 

Just like when Andy MacPhail left, the team becomes instantly better today by finally letting go of the past.

 

Buck's influence and power had grown to the point where he was hurting the organization, with his mandate of time to home plate for all pitchers, his terrible lineups, lack of using his bench and just overall uneven treatment of players.

 

There is no doubt he helped turn the culture of this team around, and his presence actually forced Andy MacPhail out, so that's something to be thankful for as well.  But you can only go on that for so long.  Buck has a shelf life and he was way past his expiration date.

 

As for these thoughts of him going somewhere else to manage - don't count on it.  Bob Nightengale had a recent article where he said most managers are getting all their on-field direction from the front office - lineups, pitching changes etc.  Frankly, that's the way it should have been in Baltimore as Duquette had a much better sense of how to assemble a roster.

 

There's no way Buck would agree to any of that, so he's done as a manager IMO.  He may take a consulting job again or maybe he goes back on TV but he simply is too old-school for any club that is dependent on analytics to consider him and he'll always want more say on the roster than any other team would give him.

 

Baltimore was a unique situation for Buck, and with him gone, it's likely to look a lot more like a traditional front office under Dan Duquette and that's extremely good news.



#433 Mike in STL

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:34 PM

He leaves with a losing record as the Orioles manager. This after years of "best record in baseball for x amount of time" talk. 

 

I've been very critical. Wish him the best though. He helped get the O's out of the dark ages. But managed to put them back right where he found them. 

 

Hopefully "new" ownership, whoever and whenever that may be, is a little more cutthroat with management from here on out. 


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#434 SportsGuy

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:35 PM

The contract would've expired anyway after a 47 win season. i just think a little too much weight was put on the Britton thing. Shit, Matty V. brought it up last night during the broadcast. 

 

it's a fun discussion either way. 

I mean, that single decision is as bad as any decision we have seen.

 

You can't lose that game and never pitch him.  

 

How much did it effect the team, players and organization?  Who knows but when you do that and you lose your chance to win it all, a chance that may never happen again, you tend to get pissed and understandably so.

 

I don't think any of us have any idea how much impact it truly had.



#435 SBTarheel

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:39 PM

I mean, that single decision is as bad as any decision we have seen.

 

You can't lose that game and never pitch him.  

 

How much did it effect the team, players and organization?  Who knows but when you do that and you lose your chance to win it all, a chance that may never happen again, you tend to get pissed and understandably so.

 

I don't think any of us have any idea how much impact it truly had.

That's my basic point...I tend to think not as much...Some think otherwise. 


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#436 Mike B

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:40 PM

He leaves with a losing record as the Orioles manager. This after years of "best record in baseball for x amount of time" talk. 

 

I've been very critical. Wish him the best though. He helped get the O's out of the dark ages. But managed to put them back right where he found them. 

 

Hopefully "new" ownership, whoever and whenever that may be, is a little more cutthroat with management from here on out. 

 

Do you think Buck "put them back there"?  Did he have some help in that endeavor?


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#437 JTrea81

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:43 PM

Do you think Buck "put them back there"?  Did he have some help in that endeavor?

 

The Toronto Blue Jays get a big assist.

 

If Rogers doesn't tamper with Duquette, this team has a whole different 2015-2018 IMO.



#438 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:43 PM

I mean, that single decision is as bad as any decision we have seen.

 

You can't lose that game and never pitch him.  

 

How much did it effect the team, players and organization?  Who knows but when you do that and you lose your chance to win it all, a chance that may never happen again, you tend to get pissed and understandably so.

 

I don't think any of us have any idea how much impact it truly had.

Yeah, who knows. At the very least I think the players lost some respect for Buck that day. We heard the reports of him losing the clubhouse the following season and imo we had too many guys under-perform the past 2 years. I think we had a reasonable shot to make  the playoffs in 2017 still. It is what it is I guess. Buck can't play for the players.   



#439 SBTarheel

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:48 PM

Yeah, who knows. At the very least I think the players lost some respect for Buck that day. We heard the reports of him losing the clubhouse the following season and imo we had too many guys under-perform the past 2 years. I thin we had a reasonable shot to make  the playoffs in 2017 still. It is what it is I guess. Buck can't play for the players.   

This. 

 

It's usually this simple. 


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#440 nickp

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:48 PM

Is the Orioles Manager position going to be an open application process?






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