124 replies to this topic

[DJ MC]

Yeah, that would be the plane crash that happened in NYC just a couple months after 9/11.

 

Yeah. Remember when that happened? People were FLIPPING THE HELL OUT.

 

Not only general terrorist-9/11 stuff, but since it landed in a neighborhood that happens to historically house FDNY families, claims that they were targeted.

 

That was a crazy day.

[SportsGuy]

They were saying there could have been an explosion in mid air...also, that it's possible for the plane to disintegrate.

But where is the wreckage?

Apparently 2 passengers boarded with stolen passports, so I wonder if something is up there?

[BSLMikeLowe]

Apparently 2 passengers boarded with stolen passports, so I wonder if something is up there?

 

Was reading about that today. Apparently both of those tickets were purchased together by a 3rd party, someone located in Iran....which instinctively suggests possible terrorism.

 

But the agent that booked the tickets said that the person at first bought tickets for them a month ago and canceled, and when he booked again all he asked for was the cheapest tickets to Europe (where they would have flown after Beijing). If it were terrorists, it would stand to reason that they would have targeted a specific flight, and so he would have asked for that flight instead of whatever is cheapest. Sounds like they could have simply been trying to illegally enter Europe, but still can't rule anything out yet.

[NewMarketSean]

Yup, sounds like the stolen passports were bought by Iranians trying to emigrate to Germany.

Also the rumors that 5 people had checked in but not boarded the flight seems to have been debunked, too.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I just don't get how, in 2014, a plane can just fall off the map.  Gone.

 

Makes zero sense.

[Mackus]

I just don't get how, in 2014, a plane can just fall off the map.  Gone.

 

Makes zero sense.

 

If all communication from the plane stops, then how would you track it?

 

Planes aren't like space debris, where once they are up you know exactly where they are gonna be in the future.  There isn't any all encompassing radar net just scanning everywhere planes fly (particularly over water) that can locate and identify planes without feedback or receipt of signal from the plane itself.

 

If the plan is over water and it stops talking, it's gone until you regain comm.  I think people overestimate how connected we are because of how connected we are over heavily populated areas.

[Pedro Cerrano]

If all communication from the plane stops, then how would you track it?

 

Planes aren't like space debris, where once they are up you know exactly where they are gonna be in the future.  There isn't any all encompassing radar net just scanning everywhere planes fly (particularly over water) that can locate and identify planes without feedback or receipt of signal from the plane itself.

 

If the plan is over water and it stops talking, it's gone until you regain comm.  I think people overestimate how connected we are because of how connected we are over heavily populated areas.

 

I dunno, isn't there a beacon or black box or something that never stops giving out a signal?

 

If I was in the middle of nowhere in my car, but my cell phoine still had a signal, people could find me.

[SammyBirdland]

I dunno, isn't there a beacon or black box or something that never stops giving out a signal?

 

If I was in the middle of nowhere in my car, but my cell phoine still had a signal, people could find me.

 

I think the black box is a recording device and not a transmitter.

 

Cell phone triangulation works based on how close you are to a tower.  

[ChrisWorthington]

Just found a Q&A in the NYT about this exact question. Here you go:

 

Q. How could a Boeing 777 simply vanish? Aren’t they always tracked by radar or satellites?

A. Radar coverage is not universal, especially over water. In areas without radar, pilots are generally required to radio in their positions at fixed intervals, mostly to assure that air traffic controllers can keep aircraft out of one another’s way. Between intervals, something could go wrong.

 

Planes like the 777 also have automatic systems that send out data on engine performance and other technical functions. Those signals go to a maintenance base, not to air traffic control. Air France used those signals to help determine what happened when its Flight 447 disappeared over the equatorial Atlantic. Investigators may be doing something similar in Kuala Lumpur.

[NewMarketSean]

Sounds like the plane was doubling back, possibly trying to return to KL airport. Perhaps something went wrong. Malaysian military radar spotted the plane over the Strait of Malacca which is on the western side of Malaysia, 200 miles off its flight course. 

 

I'm guessing the plane went down there, or possibly made it to the Indian Ocean before crashing.

[Mackus]

I dunno, isn't there a beacon or black box or something that never stops giving out a signal?

 

If I was in the middle of nowhere in my car, but my cell phoine still had a signal, people could find me.

 

Those things may be giving out a signal, but if you're not close enough to a tower that can receive it, the signal is doing you no good.  And they aren't perpetual motion machines, they can break if they lose power.  Plus, in this case, the plane was communicating and then stopped.  So then you have to switch from listening for the planes signal to instead searching for the plane based on where you knew it was last, except that you don't have any equipment capable of doing that out over the ocean.

[NewMarketSean]

The black box gives out a signal once the plane breaks apart. However the signal weakens over time and I think loses most of its power after 30 days.

[bnickle]

Yeah, they've just been looking in the wrong place. 

[McNulty]

I dunno, isn't there a beacon or black box or something that never stops giving out a signal?

 

If I was in the middle of nowhere in my car, but my cell phoine still had a signal, people could find me.

 

Systems like these advertise that you'll always be found, but it doesn't exactly work like that.

 

I remember once we were looking for a dude for about a week, and the boat equivalent (EPIRB) was giving off a signal the entire time.  Except the guy climbed into his metal cooler with the beacon after his sailboat sank and the signal was being badly interfered with.  It was a good 10-20 miles off when they advertise less than 50 meters of accuracy.

 

I'm not entirely sure what goes on with planes but I would imagine its similar technology.

[You Play to Win the Game]

So both transponders were disabled and before they were the plane was "way off course". The co-pilot had some teens fly with him in the cockpit in 2011.

I really am staying to think foul play here. Or just incompetence.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Actually, looks like the transponders were never on and it was the Malaysian Military who observed the plane being way off course. My bad.

[bnickle]

I think foul play is likely. If its true the plane veered off course and went west for a good hour it tells me the plane probably wasn't in distress. Certainly not out of the possibility, but more likely I think we had a hijacking(less likely) or a rogue pilot who just decided to dump the plane in the middle of the Indian Ocean.

 

 

 

I assume there was a good 7-8 hours worth of fuel in the plane.  Could have got pretty far out into the ocean.

[NewMarketSean]

Now they're looking at eyewitness reports that people saw/heard a low flying plane over the South China Sea which is in the total opposite direction of where they originally thought the plane diverted from its path and headed west to the Malacca Strait --which the government is now backing off of.

The plane could basically be anywhere from Hawaii to India. Insane.

[NewMarketSean]

However unlikely and slight the odds are, the plane could be sitting somewhere either A) being held hostage (although that wouldnt make sense since there would be demands) or B) waiting to be rescued.

 

I know if I had a loved one on that plane I'd be crazy furious that it can't be found and still holding out hope, no matter how slim, that my loved one was still alive.

[Oriole85]

However unlikely and slight the odds are, the plane could be sitting somewhere either A) being held hostage (although that wouldnt make sense since there would be demands) or B) waiting to be rescued.

 

I know if I had a loved one on that plane I'd be crazy furious that it can't be found and still holding out hope, no matter how slim, that my loved one was still alive.

I've never been in one of those situations and hopefully never will be, but that's all you can really do in that situation. Logical train of thought doesn't apply.