111 replies to this topic

[Oriole85]

Mussina is fighting a few things. The old line way of looking at pitchers. Glavine has the 300 wins and the Cy Youngs. Mussina is better in every other category. There are so many old line evaluators amongst the voting body. It's shifting, but not as fast as it needs to be. 

 

Case in point, last year, Kenny Lofton was a 1 and done. There's no way that should be. His career is definitely worthy of consideration. But, because voters don't even look at defense and on base, he was ignored. 

 

I'm hoping Mussina stays on the ballot--it looks like he will--and his case will build dramatically. 

 

If Morris gets in...ugh. 

I can't see how Moose doesn't stay on the ballot, I don't think he'll be a first ball HOFer though.

[GaryArmida]

I can't see how Moose doesn't stay on the ballot, I don't think he'll be a first ball HOFer though.

 

I agree with your first point, but the second point is one thing that is the basic flaw with Hall of Fame voting. Mussina is either a Hall of Famer or not. This first ballot thing is a power trip that many members of the BBWAA like to wave around. He's a Hall of Famer, that's it. 

[mweb08]

The great Joe Posnanski says the HOF should take a stand regarding the steroid era: http://hardballtalk....-stand/related/

 

And here's his Massive HOF Post: http://joeposnanski....l-of-fame-post/

[DJ MC]

Breaking: Blogger whines about real sportswriters.

 

http://www.murraychass.com/?p=7013

[mweb08]

Rob and I continued to discuss the HOF candidates tonight as we went over the Crime Dog and Larry Walker. We also had a good discussion about the HOF with Dan Brooks from brooksbaseball.net and BP.

[SportsGuy]

http://mlb.si.com/20...t-classes-ever/

[SportsGuy]

Watching Jaffe on Clubhouse Confidential. Talking about guys like Schilling and Moose...they are amongst the top 30 ever according to JAWS.

Also, Richard Justice is on....he is slamming the voters. He said there is probably half of the voters who don't get into ballparks, who don't look deep into things, don't break things down, etc....now, we are talking 250 voters here. That's incredible.

Justice also didn't vote for Bonds and Clemens but he has in the past...he said he didn't do it this year basically because of the 10 player rule and wants to make sure certain guys stay on the ballot.

He did have guys like Raines and Trammel in and felt guys like moose and Schilling are locks but he also had Morris in.

[Oriole85]

‏@keithlaw Anabolic steroids first appeared in the 1930s. Russian weightlifters used them in the 1954 Olympics. NFL players used them in the 1970s.

[mweb08]

‏@keithlaw Anabolic steroids first appeared in the 1930s. Russian weightlifters used them in the 1954 Olympics. NFL players used them in the 1970s.

 

Baseball players used them in the 60's and 70's too. http://www.sfgate.co...ids-2637503.php

[mweb08]

So some idiot voted for Jack Morris and no one else!

[SportsGuy]

So some idiot voted for Jack Morris and no one else!

Seriously?

 

How does he continue to have a vote.

[DJ MC]

Remember that Rob Neyer has been a baseball writer for ESPN.com and now SBNation.com for almost 18 years, but he is still ineligible to vote. Yet a stenographer with so little reasoning ability that they claim Greg Maddox pitched in the "Steroid Era" and Jack Morris didn't (even though their careers overlapped by nearly a decade) receives a ballot.

[DJ MC]

Seriously?

 

How does he continue to have a vote.

 

He's been a stenographer for at least 10 years. Officially, he has one until he dies.

[mweb08]

Seriously?

 

How does he continue to have a vote.

 

http://deadspin.com/...dium=socialflow

[mweb08]

I am writing my first article not for my high school paper on this very subject. So look out for that in the near future.

[Oriole85]

@JimBowdenESPNxm Ken Gurnick told us one of the reasons he will never vote again is that he would NOT have voted for Mariano Rivera either b/c of era XM 89

[DJ MC]

@JimBowdenESPNxm Ken Gurnick told us one of the reasons he will never vote again is that he would NOT have voted for Mariano Rivera either b/c of era XM 89

 

Yeah, we'll see how long that lasts. I bet he starts sending in blank ballots because he won't be able to comprehend that it counts as a vote instead of not sending back anything.

[mweb08]

Posananski is doing a HOF chat right now: http://hardballtalk....f-fame/#respond

 

He answered a couple of my questions:

 

Comment From Michael Weber

Should the writer who voted only for Morris (with the odd logic of him being the only deserving candidate that did not play in the steroid era) have his vote taken away?

 

 

 

  I'm not much for taking votes away but, honestly, I think the whole process should be reconsidered.

 

Comment From Michael Weber

Are most voters really not aware of steroid use before the "steroid era" or are they just willing to look the other way? And why are greenies ignored? Because then they'd have to be outraged by childhood favorites like Mays, Hank, etc?

 

 

 

  I'll admit this frustrates me some. I really don't like the way everyone just drew a line in 1994 like that's when everything began. It's nonsense. I can't know, obviously, but it would not surprise me if there are multiple players in the Hall of Fame right now who at least tried steroids.

[Oriole85]

The Guardian: It's Baseball's Hall of Fame time again – and there's still no place for cheaters

 

http://www.theguardi...sosa?CMP=twt_gu

 

Thom Loverro not letting "cheaters" in.

 

None of those lukewarm to poor endorsements came from me. I didn’t vote for any of them on my ballot – a paper ballot, mailed to voters, with boxes to be checked. I didn’t vote for any of them in the vote that will be announced on Wednesday, either. And I won’t be voting for any of these stars in the future.

 

That’s what it is – baseball immortality. It’s not a birthright. It’s a privilege, an honor.

[SportsGuy]

Posananski is doing a HOF chat right now: http://hardballtalk....f-fame/#respond

 

He answered a couple of my questions:

 

Comment From Michael Weber

Should the writer who voted only for Morris (with the odd logic of him being the only deserving candidate that did not play in the steroid era) have his vote taken away?

 

 

 

  I'm not much for taking votes away but, honestly, I think the whole process should be reconsidered.

 

Comment From Michael Weber

Are most voters really not aware of steroid use before the "steroid era" or are they just willing to look the other way? And why are greenies ignored? Because then they'd have to be outraged by childhood favorites like Mays, Hank, etc?

 

 

 

  I'll admit this frustrates me some. I really don't like the way everyone just drew a line in 1994 like that's when everything began. It's nonsense. I can't know, obviously, but it would not surprise me if there are multiple players in the Hall of Fame right now who at least tried steroids.

He answered my question about Moose:

 

Comment From Rob
Are people going to wisen up and see that Mussina is an obvious HOFer and has a similar, if not better, case to Glavine?


 

I do hope so. I really do. Early returns have Mussina at, what, 30% of the vote? That's a very nice first ballot appearance. I'm optimistic about him.