662 replies to this topic

[BSLChrisStoner]

Because that's not what baseball players do.  It'd be like forcing a bear to hibernate for an extra 2 months.  It's just not natural.

 

Bundy helping the Orioles this season is not the top priority, IMO.  Bundy getting back on track developmentally and re-establishing himself as a potentially dominant pitcher matters a hundredfold more than him having a handful of starts in the 2015 pennant race.  Handle him in whatever way you feel makes him most likely to have personal success this season, even if that's not optimizing him to potentially be able to help the MLB club.

 

There will be plenty of players at extended Spring Training prior to being sent to a full-season team.

 

Bundy getting on track developmentally is absolutely the number 1 priority. Having him begin his season now doesn't help or hurt in that regard. Him starting a month from now doesn't help or hurt in that regard.

If he started a month from now, it's not like the top Player Development types wouldn't be there guiding him then. So, it's not a matter of missed instruction.

 

Bundy potentially being available to help the O's in the 2nd half should not be counted on, but it is a potential wild card that exists for the O's in '15, and that potential would have been increased if you were beginning his season later.

 

Oh well.. I'll get over this.  Mainly just want to see him back on a mound (Bowie) and having success. Agreed that is what is most important.

[Mackus]

Him starting a month from now doesn't help or hurt in that regard.

 

I think it would hurt.  The season starts when it starts.  The only reason for not starting to work when the work starts is injury.  Working against extended ST guys isn't the same as working against ST rosters and with your future teammates.

[McNulty]

Building arm strength is the priority here.  That's why I believe he should be throwing.  Monitored, sure, but throwing.  I get keeping an eye on his innings to keep him available in September, but he needs to be throwing.  And Dr Andrews has stated he has no restrictions.

 

As someone very wise once said, you can't pause toast.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I think it would hurt.  The season starts when it starts.  The only reason for not starting to work when the work starts is injury.  Working against extended ST guys isn't the same as working against ST rosters and with your future teammates.

 

Respect the opinion, but I won't be convinced that him being off for another month prior to beginning the same routine he is currently on now would have negatively impacted him.

 

 

Building arm strength is the priority here.  That's why I believe he should be throwing.  Monitored, sure, but throwing.  I get keeping an eye on his innings to keep him available in September, but he needs to be throwing.  And Dr Andrews has stated he has no restrictions.

 

As someone very wise once said, you can't pause toast.

 

Sure, agreed.  But does anyone expect him to be making more than 3-5 innings starts before June? They will be keeping him on a leash imo to try and keep him available later as an option.... and also to slowly build him back up.

[RShack]

Because that's not what baseball players do.  It'd be like forcing a bear to hibernate for an extra 2 months.  It's just not natural.

 

That would be true if it was a matter of not having him pitch regularly...

 

But I don't see how it's true of they work him regularly in games but just manage his max-P per game, or IP per game, early on... (not saying they should or shouldn't, I have no strong opinion about that)

[JeffLong]

[bnickle]

Bundy looks like nothing close to a ML pitcher right now. Doesn't pass the look test or the statistical test.

Worst fears are looking more possible. That being he has a poor to mediocre season in the minors this year. Then, he'll have virtually lost all trade value and he'll be a guy the Os are forced to keep on the ML roster next year.

[McNulty]

Bundy looks like nothing close to a ML pitcher right now. Doesn't pass the look test or the statistical test.


Worst fears are looking more possible. That being he has a poor to mediocre season in the minors this year. Then, he'll have virtually lost all trade value and he'll be a guy the Os are forced to keep on the ML roster next year.

And it's Monday and I hate traffic and a bird just shit on me.

[Pedro Cerrano]

HOLD ONTO THOSE PROSPECTS THOUGH!!!!!!!

[bnickle]

HOLD ONTO THOSE PROSPECTS THOUGH!!!!!!!

There is no doubt the Os overvalue their "elite" prospects. The last time the I remember the Os trading an elite prospect was Ochoa for Bonilla. Bobby Bo helped us get to the wildcard in 96 and also played really well for us in'95. Ochoa was a guy who was a mediocre MLB player.

[bnickle]

BTW...there was a thread on another board about who is the better prospect Bundy or Eduardo Rodriguez. There is not even much of a debate. It's Rodriguez.

[Mackus]

There is no doubt the Os overvalue their "elite" prospects. The last time the I remember the Os trading an elite prospect was Ochoa for Bonilla. Bobby Bo helped us get to the wildcard in 96 and also played really well for us in'95. Ochoa was a guy who was a mediocre MLB player.

 

Ochoa was never quite elite to the extent that Bundy was (is?).  He reached as high as 35 the year we traded him in BA's top-100.  Certainly a highly rated guy, but guys like Gausman, Bundy, Machado, Wieters, Matusz, and Tillman all reached much higher, top-10 type guys.  And we now know what top-10 guys are worth, seeing what the Red Sox just paid for Moncada.  Rodriguez last year was probably more similar to Ochoa than Ochoa was to a guy like Bundy (especially pre-injury).  Another thing to consider is that aside from that '95-'97 era, we have never been in a position where we should have even considered dealing away prospects for MLB help until 2012, aside from perhaps 2005 but that started falling apart before the deadline.  So it's tough to say we refuse to do it, when there has rarely been a time when we should have even considered it.

 

There is certainly risk in holding onto prospects just as there is risk in dealing them away.  I don't think we ever really held on to Bundy when we should have dealt him.  I don't think I ever would've considered dealing him before his injury unless he was the primary piece in a deal for someone fantastic (think Stanton, Sale, etc).  After the injury, I don't think there was ever really a chance for us to deal him.  His name came up a bit, even before he was back pitching, but I don't think it was ever very realistic.  When an elite prospect like that is making their way back from injury, the team asking about him is mostly just trying to buy real low, while the team holding him is hoping he makes a full recovery and doesn't knock their value down too much.

[BSLChrisStoner]

BTW...there was a thread on another board about who is the better prospect Bundy or Eduardo Rodriguez. There is not even much of a debate. It's Rodriguez.

 

I'd much rather have Bundy.

[Mackus]

BTW...there was a thread on another board about who is the better prospect Bundy or Eduardo Rodriguez. There is not even much of a debate. It's Rodriguez.

 

I agree.  It's not that Bundy was injured that really scares you off, it's that he hasn't bounced back well from it.

 

I'm just hoping his slow recovery is because we've been having him recover slowly.  Taking it slow is probably a good idea, but it's probably a part of why he doesn't quite look right.  Or at least I hope it is, and that eventually he'll get comfortable enough and get back to where he was.

[bnickle]

I'd much rather have Bundy.

That's something other than your brain speaking.

[bnickle]

Ochoa was never quite elite to the extent that Bundy was (is?). He reached as high as 35 the year we traded him in BA's top-100. Certainly a highly rated guy, but guys like Gausman, Bundy, Machado, Wieters, Matusz, and Tillman all reached much higher, top-10 type guys. And we now know what top-10 guys are worth, seeing what the Red Sox just paid for Moncada. Rodriguez last year was probably more similar to Ochoa than Ochoa was to a guy like Bundy (especially pre-injury). Another thing to consider is that aside from that '95-'97 era, we have never been in a position where we should have even considered dealing away prospects for MLB help until 2012, aside from perhaps 2005 but that started falling apart before the deadline. So it's tough to say we refuse to do it, when there has rarely been a time when we should have even considered it.

There is certainly risk in holding onto prospects just as there is risk in dealing them away. I don't think we ever really held on to Bundy when we should have dealt him. I don't think I ever would've considered dealing him before his injury unless he was the primary piece in a deal for someone fantastic (think Stanton, Sale, etc). After the injury, I don't think there was ever really a chance for us to deal him. His name came up a bit, even before he was back pitching, but I don't think it was ever very realistic. When an elite prospect like that is making their way back from injury, the team asking about him is mostly just trying to buy real low, while the team holding him is hoping he makes a full recovery and doesn't knock their value down too much.

I'm not saying that there was ever a good opportunity out there to trade Bundy but I said as far back as pre injury that I would be all for trading Bundy in a deal for a great player.

I'm making an assumption, but I believe it's a correct one. That is I don't think the Os approach teams on "star" players and let it be known they are willing to make a big move involving their elite prospects. I'll use Justin Upton as an example. His name was out there 2-3 years ago before he went to Atl that he may be available. I would have been calling the DBacks and dangling Bundy.

[BSLChrisStoner]

That's something other than your brain speaking.

 

Feel free to bump this later.  Taking Rodriguez is over Bundy is being a prisoner of the moment imo, but I do understand why people would.

Rodriguez finished strong... velocity and movement looks good.  Bundy hasn't worked his way back, and people are getting scared. Bundy has to be in the Majors next year...  Rodriguez might have more 'current value' if you were looking to trade.

All logical points.

I'd still rather have Bundy, and hope he finds his former level (which I think he will) vs. have Rodriguez and the upside he brings.

Bundy may never find himself...  I'd rather still have Bundy, and hope I hit a home run with him.

I think if you bump this by the end of May, it might look tilted that much more to Rodriguez.  By year end, I think Bundy will be showing well, and I'll be comfortable with him having a spot on the '16 O's.

[bnickle]

I was cooling on Bundy a bit pre injury. He dominated low level minor league players but he never has had much of a chance to show anything at a real level. Os fans really need to remember that. He was as close to a polished college pitcher as you'll ever see in a HS pitcher. You can't gauge a lot of things until they get to AA. The fact that he has had this injury and doesn't have his pre injury form is only that much more of a concern. A lot of Os fans are again making a lot of assumptions about Bundy and that's likely to leave you disappointed in about 6-7 months.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I was cooling on Bundy a bit pre injury. He dominated low level minor league players but he never has had much of a chance to show anything at a real level. Os fans really need to remember that. He was as close to a polished college pitcher as you'll ever see in a HS pitcher. You can't gauge a lot of things until they get to AA. The fact that he has had this injury and doesn't have his pre injury form is only that much more of a concern.

A lot of Os fans are again making a lot of assumptions about Bundy and that's likely to leave you disappointed in about 6-7 months.

 

My point is that Bundy can strike out - never reclaiming the prospect status he deservedly had - and I'd still rather currently have the potential that he does vs. having Rodriguez. 

To each his own though.

Biggest things I'm hoping to see this year are him regularly take the ball... give 130+ innings... and by the end of year showing his former stuff.

I fully agree with anyone that is a bit concerned that here in ST, it does not appear he has his former stuff. Would have thought he was showing more this Spring, after getting a few innings of work last Fall.

[bnickle]

I'm not sure why you think he has more potential now than Rodriguez. The argument for Bundy at this point is that he has the higher floor than Rodriguez, not the higher ceiling.