304 replies to this topic

[Pedro Cerrano]

So you post a letter and thread from a guy who, in the heat of the moment, was ticked off the Terps didn't hire Mike Leach.

The same Mike Leach who is 7-14 at his current job.

You just lost the votes of jurors 5 and 11.

Maybe for your next trick you can have Edsall try the black glove on.

[bnickle]

So you post a letter and thread from a guy who, in the heat of the moment, was ticked off the Terps didn't hire Mike Leach.

The same Mike Leach who is 7-14 at his current job.

You just lost the votes of jurors 5 and 11.

Maybe for your next trick you can have Edsall try the black glove on.

LOL. You wanted proof that "people" were at best meh on the hire at the time. That's just one thread that represented the majority of the  feelings at the time.

 

 

Besides, as someone in the thread says at the end, Leach would probably still have more excitement right now with this program. Even assuming his record was as poor here as it is at WSU.

[BSLChrisStoner]

People wanted Leach, or Billick (something I threw out before anyone...and asked Billick about directly); and Pete and bnickle are right that Edsall never inspired the masses. He had lukewarm support when hired, with many people not looking at how UConn went from non-existent, to IAA, to Independent, to competitive in a AQ league. Whatever support Edsall had, he lost much of it immediately with the first year. Not just the on-field results, but the PR gaffes Edsall had that year.

 

Right prior to his hire, the focus was that you had just had a quality year... but were going to play the Military Bowl. Suite sales were not going well... there was a feeling from many (even those who liked Ralph) that a new shot of energy was needed to the program.

There were plenty out there who were not satisfied with the results of that year.... didn't care that Ralph had won the ACC COY, that MD was finishing Top 25... and were pointing to the results of the prior year. There were also those (myself included) who were very excited by DOB's year, and looking forward to his remaining tenure at MD. I spoke to a number of National analysts at the time, and was being told privately that DOB had the talent to not only play on Sunday's, but be a high pick.

 

 

 

I just don't think we can keep going back to that moment now. Think it makes more sense to look at now. The true bottom-line that we all seem to agree with is that MD isn't in position to make a hire of a 'better' coach. Maybe a lateral move, but not a better coach.

So, if you agree with that premise.... the attention (at-least to me) should turn from constant discussion about Edsall to back on the field. There is a good 2 deep returning. There is another promising recruiting class, with a couple of really good recruits possible to reel in.

 

He's going to be back next year, so let's see what happens next year. I don't care what league they are in, their healthy starting lineup has plenty of skill position talent. The issue for MD is the offensive line. They have a chance to add some real offensive line talent with this class. Usually you would not expect recruits to immediately join the trenches, but there are enough issues on the line, and the recruits committed or being pursued are talented enough to help right away.

 

I know that if MD gets 8 wins next year and goes to a mid-tier bowl, there is still going to be plenty of discussion of Edsall.... my feeling generally is you know he is back for '14... evaluate him, and where the program is after next year.

 

Besides closing out this current recruiting class.... it's extremely important that MD obtains the rest of the funding they require for their indoor practice facility, and address any other facility issue. Control what you can control.

[Oriole85]

http://maryland.247s...rs-Ago-661252/4

 

 

You don't remember well enough. This was originally a thread on the most active MD sports board there is out there. The original post was made right around the day Edsall was hired. The email itself was from a TC member bashing the hire. The following responses were the heavy majority of fans/alumni praising the letter and discussing it.

 

Again, before Edsll even coached a single game. Before he had a MD press conference. There were many more threads like this. I hope more are bumped so I can post them as well

 

 

Also, I don't care if Cerrano says fans/alumini aren't good enough. The fans/alumni are ultimately the ones that matter. They're the ones who are going to invest time and money in the program. The bottom line is 75-80% of the fans were not excited about the Edsll hire. Some were angrier than others.  Some were willing to give him a shot but admitted he didn't move the needle. There was literally 1 or 2 out of every 10 people who showed excitement over the Edsall hire.

 

 

 

 

I know Stoner visits that board, or at least used too. Either way, I'm sure he generally remembers the pulse of MD fans/alumni when Edsall was hired. He also should be able to tell it that it was "that bad". Again, if not complete angry about the Edsall hire, at least the apathy.  I'm sure Mackus could too.

So you post one message board thread to show how I don't remember well enough? We all know these kind of message board posts exists with EVERY hire in sports. Boosters aren't experts, they are just people with money and influence.

 

You can dig a little deeper than waiting for a thread to be bumped.

[Oriole85]

People wanted Leach, or Billick (something I threw out before anyone...and asked Billick about directly); and Pete and bnickle are right that Edsall never inspired the masses. He had lukewarm support when hired, with many people not looking at how UConn went from non-existent, to IAA, to Independent, to competitive in a AQ league. Whatever support Edsall had, he lost much of it immediately with the first year. Not just the on-field results, but the PR gaffes Edsall had that year.

 

Right prior to his hire, the focus was that you had just had a quality year... but were going to play the Military Bowl. Suite sales were not going well... there was a feeling from many (even those who liked Ralph) that a new shot of energy was needed to the program.

There were plenty out there who were not satisfied with the results of that year.... didn't care that Ralph had won the ACC COY, that MD was finishing Top 25... and were pointing to the results of the prior year. There were also those (myself included) who were very excited by DOB's year, and looking forward to his remaining tenure at MD. I spoke to a number of National analysts at the time, and was being told privately that DOB had the talent to not only play on Sunday's, but be a high pick.

 

 

 

I just don't think we can keep going back to that moment now. Think it makes more sense to look at now. The true bottom-line that we all seem to agree with is that MD isn't in position to make a hire of a 'better' coach. Maybe a lateral move, but not a better coach.

So, if you agree with that premise.... the attention (at-least to me) should turn from constant discussion about Edsall to back on the field. There is a good 2 deep returning. There is another promising recruiting class, with a couple of really good recruits possible to reel in.

 

He's going to be back next year, so let's see what happens next year. I don't care what league they are in, their healthy starting lineup has plenty of skill position talent. The issue for MD is the offensive line. They have a chance to add some real offensive line talent with this class. Usually you would not expect recruits to immediately join the trenches, but there are enough issues on the line, and the recruits committed or being pursued are talented enough to help right away.

 

I know that if MD gets 8 wins next year and goes to a mid-tier bowl, there is still going to be plenty of discussion of Edsall.... my feeling generally is you know he is back for '14... evaluate him, and where the program is after next year.

 

Besides closing out this current recruiting class.... it's extremely important that MD obtains the rest of the funding they require for their indoor practice facility, and address any other facility issue. Control what you can control.

A very good post on both sides of the equation. The only thing I question here is Billick. You're the only person I've seen throw his name out there. Not saying it wasn't done by others however. I also am not sure how viable of an idea that was. We're talking about a SB winning coach would he be willing to coach at Maryland?

 

DOB was being touted as the best QB in the ACC at the time. If this were the NBA, it would've been a case where he should've gone pro to capitalize on his year. In terms of Fridgen's year itself in 2010, he would've been back if Franklin hadn't taken the Vandy job. KA had to either extend or fire him and he chose the latter. The fact of the matter is Fridge's 2-10 season and the lack of sustained success after his first three years had done him in. I believe season sales would've been picked up somewhat had he stayed. And the lack of support is what costs them a better bowl since winning games is only half the battle for the mid-tier bowls but how much support you have matters a lot.

 

While Edsall will likely be back no matter what because finances will dictate it -- and yes, he's a sunk cost, his replacement isn't however. If it's apparent he's going nowhere, it's KA's job to raise the necessary to try to pay him off (not buying him out because his salary is guaranteed) and identify that up-and-coming coach who will do the job for $1.5-2 million. If not, Edsall is back.

[BSLChrisStoner]

A very good post on both sides of the equation. The only thing I question here is Billick. You're the only person I've seen throw his name out there. Not saying it wasn't done by others however. I also am not sure how viable of an idea that was. We're talking about a SB winning coach would he be willing to coach at Maryland?

 

DOB was being touted as the best QB in the ACC at the time. If this were the NBA, it would've been a case where he should've gone pro to capitalize on his year. In terms of Fridgen's year itself in 2010, he would've been back if Franklin hadn't taken the Vandy job. KA had to either extend or fire him and he chose the latter. The fact of the matter is Fridge's 2-10 season and the lack of sustained success after his first three years had done him in. I believe season sales would've been picked up somewhat had he stayed. And the lack of support is what costs them a better bowl since winning games is only half the battle for the mid-tier bowls but how much support you have matters a lot.

 

While Edsall will likely be back no matter what because finances will dictate it -- and yes, he's a sunk cost, his replacement isn't however. If it's apparent he's going nowhere, it's KA's job to raise the necessary to try to pay him off (not buying him out because his salary is guaranteed) and identify that up-and-coming coach who will do the job for $1.5-2 million. If not, Edsall is back.

 

There were numerous others (non-media) that suggested Billick.  As Billick rejected it out-of-hand (the idea of Coaching in College) when I asked him.... it is a story that only ever existed in my mind. Personally, the same reasons I think it made sense then, still make me think it makes sense today... He gets to keep his house, continue Coaching, less stress than the pros... Billick's strengths as a Coach are exactly why he would excel in College.. (articulate, some swagger)... He would flash the ring, and recruits would line up.... but you can't make him have interest... and he certainly has good gigs with the NFL Network and FOX.

[Oriole85]

There were numerous others (non-media) that suggested Billick.  As Billick rejected it out-of-hand (the idea of Coaching in College) when I asked him.... it is a story that only ever existed in my mind. Personally, the same reasons I think it made sense then, still make me think it makes sense today... He gets to keep his house, continue Coaching, less stress than the pros... Billick's strengths as a Coach are exactly why he would excel in College.. (articulate, some swagger)... He would flash the ring, and recruits would line up.... but you can't make him have interest... and he certainly has good gigs with the NFL Network and FOX.

So if USC offered him the job and $3-5 million per year to coach there, you don't think he'd take it simply because it's a college job? Weren't there rumors he was interested in the ND job?

 

In terms of it being less stress than the pros, I don't know about that. Expectations are still pretty high in major college football, many of the coaches are making pro-like salaries. Maryland football would've been less stress than the Ravens simply because of the lack of interest (not trying to degrade the program here, but there's not too many people who care more about Maryland football like they do the Ravens).

[BSLChrisStoner]

So if USC offered him the job and $3-5 million per year to coach there, you don't think he'd take it simply because it's a college job? Weren't there rumors he was interested in the ND job?

 

In terms of it being less stress than the pros, I don't know about that. Expectations are still pretty high in major college football, many of the coaches are making pro-like salaries. Maryland football would've been less stress than the Ravens simply because of the lack of interest (not trying to degrade the program here, but there's not too many people who care more about Maryland football like they do the Ravens).

 

He was adamant about not having any desire to Coach at the college level, not wanting to deal with Boosters, be bothered with Recruiting, or working with kids... so don't think it would matter who pursued him unless his point of view on those issues had changed.

There is plenty of pressure in D1 athletics, but it's not the NFL.  You are doing different things, but I think the stresses of the NFL are far more significant.

[Oriole85]

He was adamant about not having any desire to Coach at the college level, not wanting to deal with Boosters, be bothered with Recruiting, or working with kids... so don't think it would matter who pursued him unless his point of view on those issues had changed.

There is plenty of pressure in D1 athletics, but it's not the NFL.  You are doing different things, but I think the stresses of the NFL are far more significant.

For the most part, I think that's the case. But if you are at Notre Dame, Alabama, Florida, Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, I think the pressure is right up there with many NFL jobs.

 

It's a bit of apples and oranges as you implied with your "different things" remark. The pros are much more X's/O's. You have a lot more off-field commitments in college -- recruiting, satisfying/meeting boosters, appearing at various functions, being the face of the school in many cases. Pete Carroll styled himself the GM/Head Coach while at USC, since he was in charge of all aspects of the football operation. (It sounds like Pat Haden is more hands-on than Mike Garrett was however).

[PD24]

People wanted Leach, or Billick (something I threw out before anyone...and asked Billick about directly); and Pete and bnickle are right that Edsall never inspired the masses. He had lukewarm support when hired, with many people not looking at how UConn went from non-existent, to IAA, to Independent, to competitive in a AQ league. Whatever support Edsall had, he lost much of it immediately with the first year. Not just the on-field results, but the PR gaffes Edsall had that year.

 

Right prior to his hire, the focus was that you had just had a quality year... but were going to play the Military Bowl. Suite sales were not going well... there was a feeling from many (even those who liked Ralph) that a new shot of energy was needed to the program.

There were plenty out there who were not satisfied with the results of that year.... didn't care that Ralph had won the ACC COY, that MD was finishing Top 25... and were pointing to the results of the prior year. There were also those (myself included) who were very excited by DOB's year, and looking forward to his remaining tenure at MD. I spoke to a number of National analysts at the time, and was being told privately that DOB had the talent to not only play on Sunday's, but be a high pick.

 

 

 

I just don't think we can keep going back to that moment now. Think it makes more sense to look at now. The true bottom-line that we all seem to agree with is that MD isn't in position to make a hire of a 'better' coach. Maybe a lateral move, but not a better coach.

So, if you agree with that premise.... the attention (at-least to me) should turn from constant discussion about Edsall to back on the field. There is a good 2 deep returning. There is another promising recruiting class, with a couple of really good recruits possible to reel in.

 

He's going to be back next year, so let's see what happens next year. I don't care what league they are in, their healthy starting lineup has plenty of skill position talent. The issue for MD is the offensive line. They have a chance to add some real offensive line talent with this class. Usually you would not expect recruits to immediately join the trenches, but there are enough issues on the line, and the recruits committed or being pursued are talented enough to help right away.

 

I know that if MD gets 8 wins next year and goes to a mid-tier bowl, there is still going to be plenty of discussion of Edsall.... my feeling generally is you know he is back for '14... evaluate him, and where the program is after next year.

 

Besides closing out this current recruiting class.... it's extremely important that MD obtains the rest of the funding they require for their indoor practice facility, and address any other facility issue. Control what you can control.

 

This is overall a good post but you totally lost me when you said MD doesn't have the potential to hire a better coach. MD isn't a top college football job but it is certainly a decent job with potential to be a gold mine, which even Mike Leach himself said. And on the same token, Randy Edsall is a horrific coach, which doesn't exactly make it tough to replace him with someone better.

Again, if KA can't find a better coach than Randy Edsall, he needs to be the first one out the door.

[Oriole85]

This is overall a good post but you totally lost me when you said MD doesn't have the potential to hire a better coach. MD isn't a top college football job but it is certainly a decent job with potential to be a gold mine, which even Mike Leach himself said. And on the same token, Randy Edsall is a horrific coach, which doesn't exactly make it tough to replace him with someone better.

Again, if KA can't find a better coach than Randy Edsall, he needs to be the first one out the door.

Don't remember Mike Leach saying the "gold mine" comment, but it probably to how desperate he was to get back into coaching.

 

Kevin Anderson was on the job a few months when Edsall was hired. So any problem KA had attracting better candidates was most likely on his predecessor and the institution itself. He already said he tried to hire someone with more of an NFL background but they didn't want to do the necessary fundraising. I think you think this job is more desirable than it actually is. When Edsall was hired, it was a mid-tier ACC job at best. And it doesn't help that they don't have the revenue streams to hire who they want.

[BSLChrisStoner]

This is overall a good post but you totally lost me when you said MD doesn't have the potential to hire a better coach. MD isn't a top college football job but it is certainly a decent job with potential to be a gold mine, which even Mike Leach himself said. And on the same token, Randy Edsall is a horrific coach, which doesn't exactly make it tough to replace him with someone better.

Again, if KA can't find a better coach than Randy Edsall, he needs to be the first one out the door.

 

It shouldn't lose you Pete... there is no money for such a move.

 

Edsall is owed $6M. You aren't going to buy out his contract (and his assistants) and go hire someone better, with the Athletic Department still in financial hell.

 

The financial issues can't be debated... that's why they are going to the Big Ten, and it's still going to be years until that additional revenue is realized.

[Oriole85]

It shouldn't lose you Pete... there is no money for such a move.

 

Edsall is owed $6M. You aren't going to buy out his contract (and his assistants) and go hire someone better, with the Athletic Department still in financial hell.

 

The financial issues can't be debated... that's why they are going to the Big Ten, and it's still going to be years until that additional revenue is realized.

This can't be empathized enough, people can say all they want that Edsall is a "sunk cost." Yeah, they're technically right, he's getting the money either way. But it's his successor, paying his successor's staff, buying out Edsall's assistants, that all adds up. We've mentioned the elite programs in this thread and how they wouldn't "settle" for this. If Alabama was in Maryland's position, they wouldn't have a choice, that's the big difference.

[PD24]

It shouldn't lose you Pete... there is no money for such a move.

 

Edsall is owed $6M. You aren't going to buy out his contract (and his assistants) and go hire someone better, with the Athletic Department still in financial hell.

 

The financial issues can't be debated... that's why they are going to the Big Ten, and it's still going to be years until that additional revenue is realized.

 

Okay. If you want to say it's about the money, fine. I thought you were implying that they wouldn't be able to find a better coach who would want to come to UMD.

[PD24]

Don't remember Mike Leach saying the "gold mine" comment, but it probably to how desperate he was to get back into coaching.

 

Kevin Anderson was on the job a few months when Edsall was hired. So any problem KA had attracting better candidates was most likely on his predecessor and the institution itself. He already said he tried to hire someone with more of an NFL background but they didn't want to do the necessary fundraising. I think you think this job is more desirable than it actually is. When Edsall was hired, it was a mid-tier ACC job at best. And it doesn't help that they don't have the revenue streams to hire who they want.

 

http://collegefootba...sleeping-giant/

 

“They [Maryland] made the decision they made based on whatever it is they were looking for,” Leach said in an interview with SI‘s Stewart Mandel. “I certainly had a lot of support there, and I think it’s a sleeping giant and I think they’ll do well.”

[Oriole85]

http://collegefootba...sleeping-giant/

 

“They [Maryland] made the decision they made based on whatever it is they were looking for,” Leach said in an interview with SI‘s Stewart Mandel. “I certainly had a lot of support there, and I think it’s a sleeping giant and I think they’ll do well.”

Pre-Adam James scandal, Mike Leach would've never even considered Maryland.

[Oriole85]

Okay. If you want to say it's about the money, fine. I thought you were implying that they wouldn't be able to find a better coach who would want to come to UMD.

They probably could get a better coach, but it would take finding some out of the box candidate. I don't think it's as easy as you think it is. And I don't think necessarily any up-and-coming coach with no Big 10 and east coast ties is just going to come to Maryland and be set-up to fail.

[Oriole85]

I thought about this a little more, I know Colorado has had facility upgrades put it into it's current football coach and the previous basketball coach. Clearly has worked in the latter case as it's respected program now, the football program is a work in progress.

 

Maryland could do the same thing in regards to trying to get a better football coach, not necessarily this year but in the future, specifically with an indoor facility. The catch is this, if progress isn't made toward facility improvements, the coach can leave without penalty at a certain point.

[You Play to Win the Game]

They probably could get a better coach, but it would take finding some out of the box candidate. I don't think it's as easy as you think it is. And I don't think necessarily any up-and-coming coach with no Big 10 and east coast ties is just going to come to Maryland and be set-up to fail.

Yeah, it would need to be a creative/high risk, high potential hire. Kind of like the trend in MLB of hiring players with no managing experience. Northwestern was able to find a good coach in Pat Fitzgerald (who ironically spent some time at MD under Vanderlinden). He spent about 8 years in the coordinator ranks in NCAA before getting the job at NW.

[Oriole85]

Yeah, it would need to be a creative/high risk, high potential hire. Kind of like the trend in MLB of hiring players with no managing experience. Northwestern was able to find a good coach in Pat Fitzgerald (who ironically spent some time at MD under Vanderlinden). He spent about 8 years in the coordinator ranks in NCAA before getting the job at NW.

Northwestern didn't exactly find him. He was named to the position after Randy Walker died and then kept it. Fitzgerald is also a NW alum. Vandy got hired at Maryland based on his success at NW. So connecting the dots, Fitzgerald was a Vandy protege, its safe to say. Also, worked under Barnett at Colorado after that. I didn't notice any coordinator experience in his background (https://en.wikipedia.../Pat_Fitzgerald). So it worked out don't get me wrong, even if this year hasn't gone as planned, but it didn't exactly require a lot of soul searching.

 

Friedgen hinted at this on his way out, how the next Maryland coach had to know what it takes to win specifically at Maryland.