104 replies to this topic

[Markus]

Jumping to conclusions is more fun sometimes.

I hear a former IT guy actually developed a game based off of just that idea.

[Mike B]

Maybe see how he does first.

I saw all the post and thought, damn he must have thrown a 2 hit shut out.

 

The Angels rotation is beat up.  They are searching much the way the Orioles are.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

The O's rotation ins't beat up as much as it just flat sucks.

[CA-ORIOLE]

We didn't even consider Bridwell a starter. The Angels converted him to starter. Also, he wasn't "given away for nothing", he was DFA'd, but was ultimately traded. For what, I don't know. Probably very little. Bridwell did have a live arm, but I'd say Crichton is better (which is what the Orioles, including Buck, thought as well). I'd be shocked if he developed into a viable starter, didn't even see much potential as  reliever ............but I've been wrong before. 

[CA-ORIOLE]

6 IP 3 ER. Coulda been worse,especially in the first, but actually looked ok with a nice depth on his breaking ball and kept the FB down for GB outs.  

[Mackus]

I'm fully expecting Bridwell to fall on his face, he's not a MLB pitcher, IMO.  But, it's already become a fairly disturbing trend of pitchers we dump for next to nothing going out and almost immediately having solid success.

 

Zach Davies is getting hit hard this year, but he has a 4.22 ERA (102 ERA+) in 44 career starts for the Brewers after we traded him for a short-term rental in August of 2015.  Miguel Gonzalez has a 3.95 ERA (101 ERA+) in 33 starts for the White Sox since the start of last year when we released him rather than pay him $3.8M to remain with the club.  Ariel Miranda 3.87 ERA (106 ERA+) in 20 starts for the Mariners since we traded him for Miley last July.

 

Orioles starters have a 4.76 ERA this season and 4.72 last season.

[SportsGuy]

...and Hader has become a top 30ish prospect although he is struggling some this year.

[NewMarketSean]

I'm fully expecting Bridwell to fall on his face, he's not a MLB pitcher, IMO.  But, it's already become a fairly disturbing trend of pitchers we dump for next to nothing going out and almost immediately having solid success.

 

Zach Davies is getting hit hard this year, but he has a 4.22 ERA (102 ERA+) in 44 career starts for the Brewers after we traded him for a short-term rental in August of 2015.  Miguel Gonzalez has a 3.95 ERA (101 ERA+) in 33 starts for the White Sox since the start of last year when we released him rather than pay him $3.8M to remain with the club.  Ariel Miranda 3.87 ERA (106 ERA+) in 20 starts for the Mariners since we traded him for Miley last July.

 

Orioles starters have a 4.76 ERA this season and 4.72 last season.

 

It's simple. We stink at identifying and addressing things to make pitchers better. Always have been since I've been a fan for over 30 years.

 

I can't think of one pitcher who came here and got better because of what they learned from our coaches. Mussina is perhaps the lone exception to this rule but he was pretty much a complete pitcher when he reached the majors.

 

It seems like they only get worse over time. And I'm not talking about fading out of baseball -- I'm talking about pitchers still in their prime. And now they're leaving Baltimore and finding success elsewhere.

 

It's shocking and appalling that you could cobble together an Arrieta-less rotation with our cast offs from the last few years and have a pretty big improvement over what we kept.

[Mike in STL]

I'm fully expecting Bridwell to fall on his face, he's not a MLB pitcher, IMO.  But, it's already become a fairly disturbing trend of pitchers we dump for next to nothing going out and almost immediately having solid success.

 

Zach Davies is getting hit hard this year, but he has a 4.22 ERA (102 ERA+) in 44 career starts for the Brewers after we traded him for a short-term rental in August of 2015.  Miguel Gonzalez has a 3.95 ERA (101 ERA+) in 33 starts for the White Sox since the start of last year when we released him rather than pay him $3.8M to remain with the club.  Ariel Miranda 3.87 ERA (106 ERA+) in 20 starts for the Mariners since we traded him for Miley last July.

 

Orioles starters have a 4.76 ERA this season and 4.72 last season.

All of them would be welcome additions to this team right now.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

The problem is not only do they do a lousy job of developing pitchers. They do a really lousy job of going after MLB caliber starters. Ok, I get they don't have the payroll or pieces to get a Chris Sale (although I think that's a bs excuse) but why do we have to go for the Gallardos, Jimenez, and Miley's of the world?

[You Play to Win the Game]

The problem is not only do they do a lousy job of developing pitchers. They do a really lousy job of going after MLB caliber starters. Ok, I get they don't have the payroll or pieces to get a Chris Sale (although I think that's a bs excuse) but why do we have to go for the Gallardos, Jimenez, and Miley's of the world?

Because we don't have the payroll or pieces to get a Chris Sale....

[NewMarketSean]

Because we don't have the payroll or pieces to get a Chris Sale....

There's still ways to avoid these potential shitbombs though. All you have to do is look at a guy's baseball card. Especially when it came to Gallardo. Declining K rate for like 5 years, injured shoulder (or whatever it was), had to give up a draft pick...still sickening how we were initially offering 3 years and we still signed him after the failed physical but hey at least we got Seth Smith out of it. Yay.

 

Ubaldo was a iffy signing but it looks much worse now. I don't think anyone would have predicted he'd been as bad as he has been over the life of that contract. 

 

Miley....well, I'd rather have Miranda then and now. Dumb trade for no reason other than to get a "name" guy who is older, worse and more expensive than the guy you traded him for.

[SportsGuy]

Because we don't have the payroll or pieces to get a Chris Sale....

...and because we throw away draft picks, don't spend internationally, trade middling prospects for crap pieces and struggle to develop what we have.

Everything goes back to development, scouting,
Player development and your investment in the entire infrastructure.

The Orioles FAiL at this, for the most part.

You can point to a bad signing here and there but those are largely irrelevant. A team can get by a bad signing if they have the legit depth to overcome it....the Orioles don't.

I mean, you could have sent Miggy down to the minors for fucks sakes...and out let go a guy who was arguably your best starter from 2012-2015. You let him go for a few dollars.

Winning hasn't been great...but it's not happening because the organization has gotten smarter.

[Mackus]

Jimenez was a gamble.  I was comfortable with the signing, liked it in fact, but acknowledged the risk that he would be terrible more often than he'd be good.  I thought we'd get one really good year out of him at some point, along with one complete stinker, and then mixed bags the other two.  It's moreso been stinker, mixed bag, stinker, and then this year so far is another stinker.  Perhaps you could consider last season a mixed bag with his strong finish, I wouldn't though.  I'm comfortable with the decision-making that went into signing him, they were aware of the gamble they were taking, sadly it ended up being the bust that we risked without much good to salvage the deal.  I don't like that they've refused to cut bait and move on from his deal when he's been a detriment to the team (though if they cut him when I wanted to, we wouldn't have gotten his strong finish last season).

 

Gallardo I hated from the jump, the signing and the decision-making that went into it.  Just were too many red flags.  The dollar and year figures ended up palatable after they reduced the deal when his physical looked bad, but not abandoning altogether was a big mistake.  Glad to have Seth Smith now, but we could have gotten him cheaply without having to waste money and a draft pick on Gallardo.

 

I'm cool with the Miley trade as well.  He was terrible last year and looks like a ticking time bomb right now.  But I thought Miranda was a nothing piece to give up as an older guy with solid but unspectacular minor league numbers.  I thought he was a LHSP version of Alvarez or Urrutia.  He's obviously been better than that so far with the Mariners, which is concerning because he's at least the third guy to follow that pattern in recent memory, but it still could be a fluke.

[NewMarketSean]

Jimenez was a gamble. I was comfortable with the signing, liked it in fact, but acknowledged the risk that he would be terrible more often than he'd be good. I thought we'd get one really good year out of him at some point, along with one complete stinker, and then mixed bags the other two. It's moreso been stinker, mixed bag, stinker, and then this year so far is another stinker. Perhaps you could consider last season a mixed bag with his strong finish, I wouldn't though. I'm comfortable with the decision-making that went into signing him, they were aware of the gamble they were taking, sadly it ended up being the bust that we risked without much good to salvage the deal. I don't like that they've refused to cut bait and move on from his deal when he's been a detriment to the team (though if they cut him when I wanted to, we wouldn't have gotten his strong finish last season).

Gallardo I hated from the jump, the signing and the decision-making that went into it. Just were too many red flags. The dollar and year figures ended up palatable after they reduced the deal when his physical looked bad, but not abandoning altogether was a big mistake. Glad to have Seth Smith now, but we could have gotten him cheaply without having to waste money and a draft pick on Gallardo.

I'm cool with the Miley trade as well. He was terrible last year and looks like a ticking time bomb right now. But I thought Miranda was a nothing piece to give up as an older guy with solid but unspectacular minor league numbers. I thought he was a LHSP version of Alvarez or Urrutia. He's obviously been better than that so far with the Mariners, which is concerning because he's at least the third guy to follow that pattern in recent memory, but it still could be a fluke.

I don't care if Miranda was a "nothing" he was still likely better than Miley just like pretty much any "nothing" in Norfolk could be better than Jimenez. And don't forget that we had Wilson and Wright combining for 25 starts last year while Miranda was toiling away in Norfolk.

Chalk it up as another dumb pitching decision by DDDD.

[Mackus]

I don't think Miranda is better than Miley.  I didn't last July (I don't think many people did), and while Miranda has been the better pitcher since then, I don't expect that to continue.  Certainly could, though.

[NewMarketSean]

I don't think Miranda is better than Miley.  I didn't last July (I don't think many people did), and while Miranda has been the better pitcher since then, I don't expect that to continue.  Certainly could, though.

I do. a 1.5 WHIP pitcher doesn't have a 3.00 ERA for long.

[bnickle]

You cant discount pitching in an easier ballpark and or easier league. Thats not to make excuses for poor trades but Im not fretting over some of these guys having a tiny bit of success in other places. Obviously, an Arrieta is a different story but I cant say a Zach Davies or Miranda are doing anything for our rotation right now if they were here. 

 

 

 

And BTW as Ricker and I predicted Arrieta himself is turning into a pumpkin. 

[Mackus]

I do. a 1.5 WHIP pitcher doesn't have a 3.00 ERA for long.

 

I don't think Miley is a 3.00 ERA pitcher.  I don't think he's gonna be a major asset, but I think he'll be a capable back-of-rotation piece.

 

I think Miranda will struggle to remain in the majors.  If he establishes himself as a useful starter, then he's certainly more valuable than Miley given cost.

[CA-ORIOLE]

My recollection is that Buck made an unusual point to shit on Miggy publicly and a few days later he was gone. The decline in velocity and performance (going back to the previous year) was pretty concerning I guess. No team offered Miggy a ML deal and he took the Mil contract with the CHW (we had offered him a Mil deal as well) .Within a month his velocity was up and he was pitching better.  We clearly missed something there. Not like we were unfamiliar with Miggy who was a success story that pitched well for us for several years. No doubt the Orioles valued Miranda and Davies.I don't recall anybody here giving crap about Miranda at the time. The deal for Davies/Parra was horrible. Not crazy about Davies, but it was just a bad deal. That said, I doubt that people here would be that happy with either ( Davies/Miranda) performing very well in the AL East and I'd take Miley over Miranda in the short term