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LJ Hoes


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#21 Luke Jackson

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 11:18 PM

Hoes is a player that is largely ignored by prospect types because he's a corner guy without a lot of power. To me, saying that Hoes is a good bat at second but a bad bat in a corner is lazy. He's been a high OBP guy throughout the minors except for early last year when he began the year in Frederick for some reason. His OBP's by year since 2010 -- .383 (2010), .354 (2011), .361 (2012). Hoes will give you quality at-bats, take a lot of walks, make a lot of contact and hit line drives. His swing just isn't conducive for power. Never has been, probably never will be, but that's not his game. If he can translate those OBP skills to the big leagues, OF COURSE there's a spot for Hoes on a big league team even if he doesn't hit for a lot of power. I'll find a spot in the lineup for a .350-.360 OBP any day of the week. Instead of telling me, "Well, Hoes won't stick at second and doesn't hit for power so he sucks," tell me if his OBP skills are sustainable. If they are, there's a place for him in most lineups, particularly if he can save some runs defensively in the outfield. If you don't think his OBP skills are sustainable, then OK.

There's probably an argument to be made that the big league outfield right now should be Avery - Jones - Hoes.
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#22 Tucker Blair

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 12:12 AM

Hoes is a player that is largely ignored by prospect types because he's a corner guy without a lot of power. To me, saying that Hoes is a good bat at second but a bad bat in a corner is lazy. He's been a high OBP guy throughout the minors except for early last year when he began the year in Frederick for some reason. His OBP's by year since 2010 -- .383 (2010), .354 (2011), .361 (2012). Hoes will give you quality at-bats, take a lot of walks, make a lot of contact and hit line drives. His swing just isn't conducive for power. Never has been, probably never will be, but that's not his game. If he can translate those OBP skills to the big leagues, OF COURSE there's a spot for Hoes on a big league team even if he doesn't hit for a lot of power. I'll find a spot in the lineup for a .350-.360 OBP any day of the week. Instead of telling me, "Well, Hoes won't stick at second and doesn't hit for power so he sucks," tell me if his OBP skills are sustainable. If they are, there's a place for him in most lineups, particularly if he can save some runs defensively in the outfield. If you don't think his OBP skills are sustainable, then OK.

There's probably an argument to be made that the big league outfield right now should be Avery - Jones - Hoes.


You jump inside my brain or something? Man, this is spot on.
In the scheme of prospects, yea he might not be as valuable since he lacks the power. but does that matter? Last time I checked, he was with the Orioles and not the Braves, Pirates, Cubs, Mariners, etc.

But for this club? He has the pieces and skills that they DESPERATELY need right now. I couldn't agree more with your comments Luke.

#23 BobPhelan

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 07:00 AM

Hoes is a player that is largely ignored by prospect types because he's a corner guy without a lot of power. To me, saying that Hoes is a good bat at second but a bad bat in a corner is lazy. He's been a high OBP guy throughout the minors except for early last year when he began the year in Frederick for some reason. His OBP's by year since 2010 -- .383 (2010), .354 (2011), .361 (2012). Hoes will give you quality at-bats, take a lot of walks, make a lot of contact and hit line drives. His swing just isn't conducive for power. Never has been, probably never will be, but that's not his game. If he can translate those OBP skills to the big leagues, OF COURSE there's a spot for Hoes on a big league team even if he doesn't hit for a lot of power. I'll find a spot in the lineup for a .350-.360 OBP any day of the week. Instead of telling me, "Well, Hoes won't stick at second and doesn't hit for power so he sucks," tell me if his OBP skills are sustainable. If they are, there's a place for him in most lineups, particularly if he can save some runs defensively in the outfield. If you don't think his OBP skills are sustainable, then OK.

There's probably an argument to be made that the big league outfield right now should be Avery - Jones - Hoes.


Amen. I don't know what his defense is like in the outfield but if its good and he can OBP .350-.360 with 8-12 homeruns a year and steal some bases, why can't he be an everyday player? Or at least a very valuable bench player.

#24 DuffMan

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 08:19 AM

I rather see him in LF than Steve Pearce that's for sure.

#25 Mackus

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 12:59 PM

Hoes is a player that is largely ignored by prospect types because he's a corner guy without a lot of power. To me, saying that Hoes is a good bat at second but a bad bat in a corner is lazy.

Perhaps lazy, but there is a difference in expected offense from those two positions.

Tango uses a positional adjustment of +2.5 for 2B to -7.5 for LF. That's a win a year.

Just look at the OPS over the past 5 years. There is on average about a 40 point swing in OPS between the two positions. If Hoes were playing 2B, then his bat would play a lot better.

LF	2B
2012	764	700
2011	728	709
2010	770	719
2009	781	752
2008	786	747

Doesn't mean he can't be a valuable starting LF even if he's below-average when comparing OPS. If his OBP is very high, then he's probably above average overall, since it's generally more important (and sorely needed specifically in Baltimore). But there is definitely a basis to preferring if he could hang at 2B instead of LF in terms of the value he will provide. Hoes at 2B and find a random LF is generally going to be better than Hoes in LF and find a random 2B.

#26 Luke Jackson

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 01:04 PM

All fair points.

Perhaps lazy, but there is a difference in expected offense from those two positions.

Tango uses a positional adjustment of +2.5 for 2B to -7.5 for LF. That's a win a year.

Just look at the OPS over the past 5 years. There is on average about a 40 point swing in OPS between the two positions. If Hoes were playing 2B, then his bat would play a lot better.

LF	2B
2012	764	700
2011	728	709
2010	770	719
2009	781	752
2008	786	747

Doesn't mean he can't be a valuable starting LF even if he's below-average when comparing OPS. If his OBP is very high, then he's probably above average overall, since it's generally more important (and sorely needed specifically in Baltimore). But there is definitely a basis to preferring if he could hang at 2B instead of LF in terms of the value he will provide. Hoes at 2B and find a random LF is generally going to be better than Hoes in LF and find a random 2B.


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#27 BobPhelan

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:54 AM

18 game hitting streak, back to back 3 hit games, .321 average overall after a terrible start (.425 over his last 10), great BB/K ratio. Gotta love the development of Hoes and Avery this year. Maybe they'll both see time in the bigs at some point. Hoes has to be a September call up at minimum.

#28 SportsGuy

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 02:19 PM

Any chance he can be a second baseman again?

#29 JeremyStrain

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 02:31 PM

Any chance he can be a second baseman again?


Not a passable one. The defensive woes messed with his bat really bad.
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#30 Luke Jackson

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 09:32 PM

Not a passable one. The defensive woes messed with his bat really bad.


Big part of the reason that Hoes slumped in Frederick in the beginning of 2011 was that he was so bad at second base...Orlando Gomez, Frederick's manager, recommended that he move to the outfield so he wouldn't take his defense into his at-bats and so he could focus his preparation on hitting.
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#31 bnickle

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 10:41 PM

Really want to see LJ get a cup of coffee this year. I think he can be part of our '13 club.

#32 Adam Wolff

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:38 AM

Really want to see LJ get a cup of coffee this year. I think he can be part of our '13 club.


Me too. I realize the power is not what you'd like for corner outfielder, but last I checked, we had plenty of guys that can hit the long ball. What we don't have are good baserunners, good defenders, or good OBP guys. I think he could maybe be that.

Hope he comes up sooner rather than later.

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#33 Mackus

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:51 AM

For those who have seen him, how is his defense in LF?

Is he a guy who could be confused for a CF playing LF (like Avery)?

#34 JeremyStrain

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 10:04 AM

For those who have seen him, how is his defense in LF?

Is he a guy who could be confused for a CF playing LF (like Avery)?

Average, nothing special.
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#35 Mackus

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 10:19 AM

Average, nothing special.

Yeah that was my assumption.

Still, I hope he can get a cup of coffee late this year if he continues to play well. I do think his skillset would be a needed asset for the team.

#36 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 01:55 PM

Bowie: .265 baa, 196 ab's, 9 doubles, 3 triples, 2 hr's, 16 rbi's, 31 bb's, 33 k's, 12 steals, 5 cs, .741 OPS

Norfolk: .302 baa, 179 ab's, 10 doubles, 3 triples, 2 hr's, 20 rbi's, 18 bb's, 25 k's, 6 steals, 5 cs, .791 OPS

#37 Greg Pappas

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 02:35 PM

I don't see -at this time- a player that has a starting corner outfielder's skill-set, as he offers little power and little speed. A 64% Stolen Base Success Rate is simply not going to get it done at the Big League level, or any level for that matter... however, I will add that IF Hoes can swipe 20-30 bases a year at a quality rate, then his value goes up in my view.

#38 Mackus

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 08:38 AM

I don't see -at this time- a player that has a starting corner outfielder's skill-set, as he offers little power and little speed. A 64% Stolen Base Success Rate is simply not going to get it done at the Big League level, or any level for that matter... however, I will add that IF Hoes can swipe 20-30 bases a year at a quality rate, then his value goes up in my view.

You don't have to fit the mold of a typical starting LF to still have value, even as a potential starter. If Hoes can hit .290-.300 at the MLB level like he's done in the minors the last couple years and have his OBP in the .365 range then he can be a worthwhile starting LF even if he's only average defensively and doesn't hit for any power or steal bases. A low 700s OPS is under league average for a corner OF for sure, but if it's heavily driven by OBP then the relative value of that OPS would be higher.

The trick obviously will be him being able to keep the average and walk rate up while not being a threat at all to pitchers power-wise.

#39 Tucker Blair

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:51 AM

http://orioles-natio... ... ng-report/

wrote about him today
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#40 Adam Wolff

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:33 AM

I personally think a lot of people underrate the hell out of LJ Hoes.

He's been great lately and really great overall this season. Has he developed the power everyone wants? No, he hasn't, but a .300 avg, OBP pushing .400, and an excellent K/BB ratio would go really well on this team right now. Plus, he's still just 22.

Love the Lew Ford story and the way he plays the game, but I think LJ should get the call to play LF.

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