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#2261 The Epic

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Posted 24 June 2020 - 06:07 PM

If someone thinks NASCAR jumped the gun, they are really looking at an argument just to have an argument. There is nothing wrong with NASCAR making a bold proclamation to do a full fledged investigation and terminate the person responsible, two weeks after banning the confederate flag, getting backlash from rednecks on social media about it, and showing up to Talladega Alabama to find lots of confederate flags outside the race track, and someone fly a plane over the track pulling a confederate flag.

In this environment, even not in this environment, when a noose shows up in the only black drivers garage, NASCAR needed to throw the hammer down. I think video evidence surfacing that it was already there a year ago was the last thing they thought would come of the investigation.

If they threaten to bring the hammer down, they jumped the gun. If they say the boiler plate “this does not represent the views of NASCAR, we support drivers of all colors, We’re sorry this happened.” Then it’s tone deaf and appears insincere.

Give me jump the gun.

 

This was the spirit of the debate.

 

Will thinks that it was a disservice to race relations FOR NASCAR to jump the gun, because they gave a strongly worded statement saying that it was true prior to the investigation being complete. Bomani is pretty much saying they had to, because the damage they'd have if they didn't massively outweighs the risk that it wasn't true. Furthermore, Bomani is saying that if this is the straw that breaks the race relations debate, the person you're debating with probably isn't as persuadable as you thought.


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#2262 SportsGuy

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Posted 24 June 2020 - 08:22 PM

I think both sides are right and this is a perfect example of why social media is the worst invention in the history of the planet.

No one cares about being right...it’s about being first.

This could have been kept quiet in the beginning...they certainly could have handled it differently.

But the other side of it is that NASCAR was in a bad spot either way and based off of your explanation(I didn’t hear the conversation but have seen and read some stuff Cain has said on this), I think Bomani has a good point too.

My issue is that there is no way people didn’t know what that was from the beginning. I don’t know if this is “Bubba Smollett” or some racist person that planted it or whatever. Who knows. What I do know is that they have high tech equipment everywhere and if someone did plant it, it would have been caught.

They are saying it’s been there since 2019. If you knew that, why on earth would you give him that garage? That doesn’t make much sense to me.

There is just a lot more explaining that needs to happen here and I think what Cain is saying is that we need to know the facts before we start demonizing an unknown person, a fan base (see Jemele Hill), etc....

#2263 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 24 June 2020 - 08:24 PM

Full Audio of Bomani Jones Making Will Cain Look Like a Fool on His Own Radio Show Over Cain Saying Bubba Wallace is Hurting Race Relations in America (Video) https://bit.ly/2CEkL1i
 
 


#2264 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 24 June 2020 - 08:27 PM

SF Gate: Drew Magary: Bill Simmons has had this coming for a long time now
https://www.sfgate.c...ight-204312.php



#2265 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 24 June 2020 - 08:59 PM

Surprised at the backlash at Simmons.  He has always struck me as a fairly progressive person who was very sensitive to race and gender issues.


Yea, he sometimes takes a shot at women (especially in a previous time) for a cheap laugh but, man, he's taking this on the chin.


There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

"Now OPS sucks.  Got it."

"Making his own olive brine is peak Mackus."

"I'm too hungover to watch a loss." - McNulty

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#2266 SBTarheel

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Posted 24 June 2020 - 09:06 PM

Surprised at the backlash at Simmons.  He has always struck me as a fairly progressive person who was very sensitive to race and gender issues.


Yea, he sometimes takes a shot at women (especially in a previous time) for a cheap laugh but, man, he's taking this on the chin.

Agree with this completely. I'm a longtime fan of his. 

 

But "It's a business, it's not open mic night" was a REALLY dumb thing to say considering some of the people he's given podcasts to. 


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#2267 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 24 June 2020 - 09:10 PM

Agree with this completely. I'm a longtime fan of his. 

 

But "It's a business, it's not open mic night" was a REALLY dumb thing to say considering some of the people he's given podcasts to. 

 

Despite being from DC, I cannot stand Joe House.  He has zero original thoughts.  He sits on an NBA podcast for 90 minutes and just agrees.

 

I like Jack-O a lot cuz he talks baseball and is a right leaner that hates Trump.  Also he's Irish lol.


There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

"Now OPS sucks.  Got it."

"Making his own olive brine is peak Mackus."

"I'm too hungover to watch a loss." - McNulty

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#2268 SBTarheel

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Posted 24 June 2020 - 09:12 PM

Despite being from DC, I cannot stand Joe House.  He has zero original thoughts.  He sits on an NBA podcast for 90 minutes and just agrees.

 

I like Jack-O a lot cuz he talks baseball and is a right leaner that hates Trump.  Also he's Irish lol.

Yea, I agree, House doesn't add much at all. I have no interest in Golf, so I've never listened to his solo podcast, but I can't imagine it's very good. 

 

Love Jack O, hearing his disappointment in his beloved GOP in relation to Trump is always spot on. 


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#2269 mweb08

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Posted 24 June 2020 - 10:26 PM





@BSO




Full Audio of Bomani Jones Making Will Cain Look Like a Fool on His Own Radio Show Over Cain Saying Bubba Wallace is Hurting Race Relations in America (Video) https://bit.ly/2CEkL1i












I know this will shock some people, but I think Bomani is in the right there and nails some key points and impediments to us doing better on the subject of race.

#2270 mweb08

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Posted 24 June 2020 - 10:29 PM

Yea, I agree, House doesn't add much at all. I have no interest in Golf, so I've never listened to his solo podcast, but I can't imagine it's very good.

Love Jack O, hearing his disappointment in his beloved GOP in relation to Trump is always spot on.


I actually enjoy House on "House of Carbs" and he can contribute pretty well on some pods, but it wasn't great a while back when he was a major NBA guest.

Jack-O kinda sucks imo.

#2271 mweb08

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Posted 24 June 2020 - 10:32 PM

Agree with this completely. I'm a longtime fan of his.

But "It's a business, it's not open mic night" was a REALLY dumb thing to say considering some of the people he's given podcasts to.


Yeah, not a good quote. I think he's pretty good regarding race considering he's like a 50 year old white dude, but he certainly could have been doing better with hiring at Grantland / The Ringer and he and Russillo should have done better with their post George Floyd pod, which they apologized for.
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#2272 Mike in STL

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Posted 24 June 2020 - 10:51 PM

I think both sides are right and this is a perfect example of why social media is the worst invention in the history of the planet.

No one cares about being right...it’s about being first.

This could have been kept quiet in the beginning...they certainly could have handled it differently.

But the other side of it is that NASCAR was in a bad spot either way and based off of your explanation(I didn’t hear the conversation but have seen and read some stuff Cain has said on this), I think Bomani has a good point too.

My issue is that there is no way people didn’t know what that was from the beginning. I don’t know if this is “Bubba Smollett” or some racist person that planted it or whatever. Who knows. What I do know is that they have high tech equipment everywhere and if someone did plant it, it would have been caught.

They are saying it’s been there since 2019. If you knew that, why on earth would you give him that garage? That doesn’t make much sense to me.

There is just a lot more explaining that needs to happen here and I think what Cain is saying is that we need to know the facts before we start demonizing an unknown person, a fan base (see Jemele Hill), etc....

I don't know what social media had to with this. One of Bubba's crew members arrived to their garage to find the noose. He turned it over to NASCAR. (Bubba never saw it, not that that matters). NASCAR assumed, like anyone would have, it was planted there since it happened to be in a black drivers garage. 1 in 40 chance the Bubba gets assigned that stall I guess. And I don't think the people at the track are like "whoa, Garage 21 (or whatever) is the one with the noose in it. Make sure Bubba doesn't get that one."

 

It's not "Bubba Smollett".

 

NASCAR didn't know it was there in 2019 until they investigated. The only footage of it being there prior, was from video taken by someone going by the garages in 2019 on a golf cart or something, just filming the cars as they drove by, and you can see it hanging near the garage door, of a white driver. Why was it there last year? I don't know. Was it there prior to that one tape catching it in 2019? I don't know. How did it stay there for almost a year when crews leave and take their stuff, and people who work at the track clean up garages, or prep the garages for the arrival of the next racers, I don't know. Is there high tech equipment in the garages, like security footage? Doubt it. The garages are no frills. 3 concrete walls with a tin roof. If there was a camera in each garage, I think even the people at NASCAR would have asked the folks at the track to see the tape before "call the FBI".

 

You can't demonize an unknown person. Who did NASCAR hurt? Whose image is tarnished? 

 

They acted swiftly on what looked on the surface to be a hate crime. Was it? In the end, no. I think they're okay taking the hit for acting swiftly on a possible hate crime. 


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#2273 The Epic

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Posted 24 June 2020 - 10:54 PM

I think both sides are right and this is a perfect example of why social media is the worst invention in the history of the planet.

No one cares about being right...it’s about being first.

This could have been kept quiet in the beginning...they certainly could have handled it differently.

But the other side of it is that NASCAR was in a bad spot either way and based off of your explanation(I didn’t hear the conversation but have seen and read some stuff Cain has said on this), I think Bomani has a good point too.

My issue is that there is no way people didn’t know what that was from the beginning. I don’t know if this is “Bubba Smollett” or some racist person that planted it or whatever. Who knows. What I do know is that they have high tech equipment everywhere and if someone did plant it, it would have been caught.

They are saying it’s been there since 2019. If you knew that, why on earth would you give him that garage? That doesn’t make much sense to me.

There is just a lot more explaining that needs to happen here and I think what Cain is saying is that we need to know the facts before we start demonizing an unknown person, a fan base (see Jemele Hill), etc....


I think all of those questions have been answered by now. #1, anybody comparing this to Jussie is just being a douche.

 

It all sounds like one giant misunderstanding that NASCAR (NOT BUBBA) ran ahead of because it sounded bad from the start. Based on the sport's history, if you're trying to do an about-face, you'd have to do the same. The other end would include you finding it and not saying anything until the investigation concludes, and having Bubba possibly be the target of some hate crime. That would not only harm Bubba of course, but it would cause irreparable damage to NASCAR. So they did the safest thing. And since it's sports news, the sports media took hold of it. It was a pretty logical series of steps. NASCAR just got it wrong, while erring on the side of caution.

 

(BTW, small political aside. I bring up people arguing in bad faith a lot. Will Cain, IMO, is a right winger that argues in good faith. I think he's very ignorant to specific topics, but I do think that he says what he believes, and doesn't argue just because that's what his fans want.)



#2274 SportsGuy

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 06:09 AM

I don't know what social media had to with this. One of Bubba's crew members arrived to their garage to find the noose. He turned it over to NASCAR. (Bubba never saw it, not that that matters). NASCAR assumed, like anyone would have, it was planted there since it happened to be in a black drivers garage. 1 in 40 chance the Bubba gets assigned that stall I guess. And I don't think the people at the track are like "whoa, Garage 21 (or whatever) is the one with the noose in it. Make sure Bubba doesn't get that one."

It's not "Bubba Smollett".

NASCAR didn't know it was there in 2019 until they investigated. The only footage of it being there prior, was from video taken by someone going by the garages in 2019 on a golf cart or something, just filming the cars as they drove by, and you can see it hanging near the garage door, of a white driver. Why was it there last year? I don't know. Was it there prior to that one tape catching it in 2019? I don't know. How did it stay there for almost a year when crews leave and take their stuff, and people who work at the track clean up garages, or prep the garages for the arrival of the next racers, I don't know. Is there high tech equipment in the garages, like security footage? Doubt it. The garages are no frills. 3 concrete walls with a tin roof. If there was a camera in each garage, I think even the people at NASCAR would have asked the folks at the track to see the tape before "call the FBI".

You can't demonize an unknown person. Who did NASCAR hurt? Whose image is tarnished?

They acted swiftly on what looked on the surface to be a hate crime. Was it? In the end, no. I think they're okay taking the hit for acting swiftly on a possible hate crime.

Social media had something to do with it because social media has established a foundation for the culture of getting it out first and worrying about it being right second.

Hard for me to believe that there aren’t cameras in the garages. These cars are worth a lot of money and cost a ton to upkeep, tools are expensive, etc...the idea that they just sit in there with zero surveillance seems far fetched to me but I guess it’s possible that they are just that stupid to not have that.

To me, this is all too coincidental. The one black driver on the circuit just happened to be the one who got the bay with the noose looking object sitting in there for over a year?

Maybe it is just a big coincidence but I think there is a lot more to this story than what we are being told or, at least, what they have found.

To me, it’s one of 2 things:

1) Publicity stunt
2) hate crime

It’s just hard for me to believe that this is just a coincidence and misunderstanding.

https://twitter.com/...4607484928?s=21

This tweet from Cain says it all imo.

His basic point is that the media’s job is to find out the truth and not jump to a rash decision with little facts behind it. He’s right.

But social media has changed that mind set.

#2275 SportsGuy

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 06:34 AM

Bomani did have a good argument as to why NASCAR had to rush to judgement.

Some of Cain’s argument is his persona of “seeker of truth”.

#2276 Mike in STL

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 07:37 AM

I get it. Better to be first than right these days. I still don’t know the role social media played unless someone specific was named for committing the crime and it spread like crazy, dragging said persons name through the mud, which didn’t happen here.

Deadspin isn’t real media, and looks like a culprit. Instead of reporting what happened they titled this article “Noose in Bubba Wallace’s Garage Stall Smells Like NASCAR Inside Job”

https://deadspin.com...-lik-1844114408

...which has since been changed to “...not a hate crime say feds [updated]”

Again, no one was hurt, or smeared, by NASCAR being proactive, and even fake media speculating it was an inside job before finding out everything.
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#2277 The Epic

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 09:03 AM

I think "better to be first than right" is absolutely a media-driven problem that should be addressed. However, I don't think that happened here.

 

They are reporting what NASCAR said, and the takes developed from there. The media didn't jump ahead of the news; NASCAR jumped ahead of its own news.

 

Deadspin is kinda fringey and I'm not gonna talk about them as a real media source. LOL



#2278 SportsGuy

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 09:04 AM

I think "better to be first than right" is absolutely a media-driven problem that should be addressed. However, I don't think that happened here.

They are reporting what NASCAR said, and the takes developed from there. The media didn't jump ahead of the news; NASCAR jumped ahead of its own news.

Deaspin is kinda fringey and I'm not gonna talk about them as a real media source. LOL

I do think it’s more fair to say that NASCAR jumped the gun more than the media did.

I still feel the media doesn’t care about getting things right anymore though.

#2279 SBTarheel

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 09:55 AM

We should all be thrilled that it was just a misunderstanding. 

 

Anyone comparing to Jussie is just purposely being an uninformed a hole. It was widely reported what happened, and there are multiple photos and videos showing this was in Garage #4 back in October the last time the Cup Series raced in Talladega. Not sure if people just think NASCAR races at the same track every week, or this specific garage was "Bubba's permanent garage' or what, but that's just not the case at all, and every story has reported this, so if people just want to be jerks about it, so be it, but they have ZERO credibility. 


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#2280 mweb08

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Posted 25 June 2020 - 10:03 AM

Bomani is right in that this is the type of thing that people that don't want to focus on what's important, don't want to persuade people away from racism, and/or can't be persuaded like to focus on. It's a way to distract from and undermine the legitimacy of the issue. All the outrage for this while mostly or completely glossing over the prevalence of racism within NASCAR culture that was exhibited by all the Confederate flags flown outside of the venue and the one flown over it.
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