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#481 hallas

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Posted 01 October 2022 - 01:21 AM

I'm sure the NFL will re-evaluate the concussion protocols based on Tua's last two games, but short of declaring all players whose head slams the turf out for the rest of the game until an MRI can be given, I'm not sure what else they can do. A third party doctor already gives an evaluation. But that evaluation means little without an MRI that can actually see if any damage occurred.

I'm sure you could mandate a booth doctor whose job it is to declare a player out because of potential injury, but do you really want to give that much power over a game's outcome to one person? It's a violent game. The NFL has had many opportunities to change the design of their helmets and they have refused most of them because they are very expensive and not very eye appealing. That may be more of a problem then their concussion protocol.

MRIs and CT scans cant detect concussions. You mainly get an MRI or a CT scan to rule out brain hemorrhaging.

The NFL has done a lot of pretty good work with the helmets. The reason they haven't gone with a soft helmet is because they haven't done that well when the player hits his head on the ground. The hard helmet has less friction and does a better job of keeping the neck stable, which reduces catastrophic neck injuries.

#482 cprenegade

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Posted 01 October 2022 - 01:38 AM

MRIs and CT scans cant detect concussions. You mainly get an MRI or a CT scan to rule out brain hemorrhaging.

The NFL has done a lot of pretty good work with the helmets. The reason they haven't gone with a soft helmet is because they haven't done that well when the player hits his head on the ground. The hard helmet has less friction and does a better job of keeping the neck stable, which reduces catastrophic neck injuries.

 

I have no doubt the NFL has done as much as they can with the current helmet design, but I remember a piece a few years ago that highlighted other helmet designs that were vastly superior to the NFL helmet.  The NFL chose not to examine them mainly because they were (at that time) about 10x as expensive per helmet, and they also obliterated the team insignia on a helmet.  The look was very awkward, but the effectiveness was much better than what the NFL was currently using.  I'm sure they also could have been considered cumbersome to player's athletic ability, but they were very much considered an improvement over the current design as far as preventing concussions.



#483 Mike in STL

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Posted 01 October 2022 - 07:28 AM

Seriously. If the Dolphins seriously evaluated Tua each day since the "back" injury on Sunday, then why did they rush to get him back into that game? That tells me they tried to beat the system, but knew he was probably concussed anyway. So what gives?


100%.




No, he's parroting the NFL's line. It's hogwash. Buy him a round if you like at happy hour, but the guy's way off here.

Dude, how many times do you need to be told that the Dolphins were supposedly following protocol and that’s all we know right now? There is an investigation ongoing to see if it was on the up and up. Chris mentioned the ways the protocol could be exploited. If the investigation shows the Dolphins exploited the protocol (Strong armed the 3rd party doc. Doc giving into a player who want to play despite what he sees in his evaluation, etc…) then yes, it’s a serious problem and they should be taken to task for it. But we aren’t there yet.

When a coach gets word a player is clear to return, they go back in. They don’t ask for second and third opinions, nor are they qualified to overrule a doctors opinion. They have a football game to manage.

Yes. After what we saw, the NFL should review their protocol and make adjustments, even if everything the Dolphins did was clean.

I don’t have all the answers. But what’s your solution? How long does a player need to stay off the field after being visibly shaken up? What protocols should be implemented that aren’t?
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#484 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 01 October 2022 - 09:18 AM

The NFL has had many opportunities to change the design of their helmets and they have refused most of them because they are very expensive and not very eye appealing. That may be more of a problem then their concussion protocol.


That’s pretty sick. Branding over safety.

#485 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 01 October 2022 - 09:38 AM

The Ringer: Tua Tagovailoa and the NFL’s Horrible Handling of Head Injuries

https://www.theringe...-miami-dolphins



#486 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 01 October 2022 - 09:49 AM

No, he was observed for concussion symptoms, He wasn't given an MRI at halftime. They simply changed the injury from head injury to back injury to you know, expedite things. And the reason they did that was because he already exhibited concussion symptoms when he hit his head, then grabbed his head, stumbled, and then fell down. That is what you could call a medically unethical thing to do. It's why the NFLPA is investigating the Miami Dolphins coaches and medical staff.

 

 

And who said a doctor cleared him to fly? Do you have a source for that? Actually, that bit is going to be reviewed too. 

 

I guess what I don't get is, each game is supposed to have an independent neurologist on each sideline, and they're supposed to have the final say of if a player renters.

 

My understanding is that neurologist evaluated Tua Sunday, determined it was a back injury and not a concussion, and allowed him to reenter. 

 

If you think: 

 

1) That neurologist is not actually independent since they're paid by the NFL, okay.

2) That neurologist should have not cleared Tua, and should have given him further testing, okay. 

 

I just don't see what the Dolphins should have done differently, once the doctor cleared him.

 

Obviously the league has the existing protocol as a cya.

https://www.nfl.com/...pation-protocol

 

But this is what was negotiated by the league and the players association. 

 

If the protocol wasn't followed by the neurologist or the Dolphins...  the Dolphins will obviously pay significantly. 



#487 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 01 October 2022 - 09:54 AM

CBS Sports: NFLPA to 'pursue every legal option' after Tua injury



#488 Mike in STL

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Posted 01 October 2022 - 11:30 AM

Also. Is there much a discussion if Tua doesn’t get hurt on Thursday. I feel like the outrage didn’t happen until after that. NFL doing their investigation into Sunday for sure. But it wasn’t til post game Thursday that all the people on the network panel were all of sudden “this is disgraceful” after the 2nd injury. No one was saying it pregame.
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#489 Mackus

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Posted 01 October 2022 - 11:37 AM


Also. Is there much a discussion if Tua doesn’t get hurt on Thursday. I feel like the outrage didn’t happen until after that. NFL doing their investigation into Sunday for sure. But it wasn’t til post game Thursday that all the people on the network panel were all of sudden “this is disgraceful” after the 2nd injury. No one was saying it pregame.

The outrage is snowballing but there was definitely questions and dubiousness about protocol being followed on Sunday. Probably much more awareness after the fact about Sunday now that so many more people watched what happened on TNF.

#490 Mike in STL

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Posted 01 October 2022 - 11:49 AM

The outrage is snowballing but there was definitely questions and dubiousness about protocol being followed on Sunday. Probably much more awareness after the fact about Sunday now that so many more people watched what happened on TNF.


Yeah, it’s as if, if he didn’t get hurt Thursday, it’s almost a non issue today. The investigation being back page news. Pregame it was all about how explosive Tua and the Dolphins offense is. Post game it was all such a disgrace they even allowed him to suit up in the first place.
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#491 Mike in STL

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Posted 01 October 2022 - 01:33 PM

The neurologist who cleared Tua on Sunday has apparently been terminated. Broke “several rules”
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#492 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 01 October 2022 - 02:16 PM


The neurologist who cleared Tua on Sunday has apparently been terminated. Broke “several rules”

Despicable. Regardless of if Tua and the Dolphins were in on it.

#493 mweb08

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Posted 01 October 2022 - 05:52 PM

The neurologist who cleared Tua on Sunday has apparently been terminated. Broke “several rules”


Shocking

#494 hallas

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Posted 02 October 2022 - 01:58 AM

I have no doubt the NFL has done as much as they can with the current helmet design, but I remember a piece a few years ago that highlighted other helmet designs that were vastly superior to the NFL helmet.  The NFL chose not to examine them mainly because they were (at that time) about 10x as expensive per helmet, and they also obliterated the team insignia on a helmet.  The look was very awkward, but the effectiveness was much better than what the NFL was currently using.  I'm sure they also could have been considered cumbersome to player's athletic ability, but they were very much considered an improvement over the current design as far as preventing concussions.


Well, we might start seeing players with those soft shells that they were using in the preseason and during practice.  Just have to figure out how to add a logo to it.



#495 hallas

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Posted 02 October 2022 - 02:05 AM

While I get that the NFL has a history of shit behavior with regard to dealing with the health effects of football, I really think we should withhold judgement until everything shakes out.  Even if you assume no bad faith from all parties, this situation uncovered gaps in the concussion protocol that the league can do a better job covering.  We’ll know how serious the nfl is about player safety based on any changes made to the protocol.  If they stand pat then we know they don’t care.



#496 Mike in STL

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Posted 02 October 2022 - 06:52 AM


Well, we might start seeing players with those soft shells that they were using in the preseason and during practice.  Just have to figure out how to add a logo to it.

That wont happen. I remember when Wes Welker and I think maybe it was someone on the Steelers, wore an oversized helmet because they had a concussion at some point, and this larger helmet offered more protection. Though probably more cumbersome. But if it's safer, they'd just make that the helmet for everyone. But, they don't. 


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#497 Mike in STL

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Posted 02 October 2022 - 07:09 AM

While I get that the NFL has a history of shit behavior with regard to dealing with the health effects of football, I really think we should withhold judgement until everything shakes out.  Even if you assume no bad faith from all parties, this situation uncovered gaps in the concussion protocol that the league can do a better job covering.  We’ll know how serious the nfl is about player safety based on any changes made to the protocol.  If they stand pat then we know they don’t care.

They said changes could go into effect as early as week 5 (Next week) including ruling a player out if they are visibly unstable. 

 

Now, who is the one to make that call is the question. Also, they have to define that. Is it someone who goes into concussion protocol who was unstable? Or all unstable looking players. How many times to we see guys hobbling around, or need help off the field, but get some tape and a few plays off and they come back in? Is this just for Quarterbacks whose hits are isolated and easy to see if their head took a violent thump, rather than the guys in the trenches who we know can suffer mini-concussions and keep on playing?


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#498 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 15 October 2022 - 09:46 AM



#499 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 18 October 2022 - 08:24 AM



#500 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 01 November 2022 - 05:27 PM

ESPN: Bradley Chubb traded to Dolphins: What does it mean for both teams?

https://www.espn.com...does-mean-teams






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