141 replies to this topic

[Adam Wolff]

I'm just so over hearing about Manziel.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I'm just so over hearing about Manziel.

 

So am I... and I thought after serving his half game suspension, we'd be about ready to move on... then he acted the way he did yesterday. I still can't believe he'd be that much of an ass after all that's gone on the whole off-season. The kid needs serious help, IMHO. I've laid off him for the most part, and defended him, but it's becoming more clear to me that he's got some serious issues.

[Oriole85]

So am I... and I thought after serving his half game suspension, we'd be about ready to move on... then he acted the way he did yesterday. I still can't believe he'd be that much of an ass after all that's gone on the whole off-season. The kid needs serious help, IMHO. I've laid off him for the most part, and defended him, but it's becoming more clear to me that he's got some serious issues.

I get how you and Adam could be annoyed by the over-coverage. I really don't blame you. ESPN has obviously done studies and the public has more of an appetite for it.

 

I think he is way too stubborn to get help. He's made it clear while he's made lifestyles and has learned from them, he sees himself as a college student and will continue to do college-like things.

 

While most of what he is doing is completely legal, he's not doing himself any favors with his lifestyle. I've noticed he hasn't tweeted in a month, so maybe (a big maybe), he's starting to get it atleast in one regard.

[McNulty]

Again, what exactly did he do that was so wrong?  He had tons of built up frustration and vented some yesterday.

 

I would have done a lot worse.  The kid is TWENTY and is being scrutinized at unprecedented levels for someone his age.

 

His lifestyle?  ITS THE SAME LIFESTYLE EVERY 20 YEAR OLD KID WOULD WANT!

 

Where is the vitriol for the Rice players who were taunting him?  I cannot believe how skewed this is.

[Oriole85]

Again, what exactly did he do that was so wrong?  He had tons of built up frustration and vented some yesterday.

 

I would have done a lot worse.  The kid is TWENTY and is being scrutinized at unprecedented levels for someone his age.

 

His lifestyle?  ITS THE SAME LIFESTYLE EVERY 20 YEAR OLD KID WOULD WANT!

 

Where is the vitriol for the Rice players who were taunting him?  I cannot believe how skewed this is.

I don't think you get it.

 

When you win the Heisman Trophy, you are held to a higher standard than some regular college student. No one is disputing there's worst college kids than him.

 

And if you were Heisman Trophy winner, who did worse than Johnny Manziel, you would get even treated worse.

 

Not every 20 year old is the face of their university, that's where the difference lies.

 

No one cares about these scrubs from Rice.

 

 

This really isn't that complicated, even if you want to claim to the contrary. It's not fair and it's not going to be.

[McNulty]

Again, what exactly did he do that was so wrong? He had tons of built up frustration and vented some yesterday. I would have done a lot worse. The kid is TWENTY and is being scrutinized at unprecedented levels for someone his age. His lifestyle? ITS THE SAME LIFESTYLE EVERY 20 YEAR OLD KID WOULD WANT! Where is the vitriol for the Rice players who were taunting him? I cannot believe how skewed this is.

I don't think you get it. When you win the Heisman Trophy, you are held to a higher standard than some regular college student. No one is disputing there's worst college kids than him. And if you were Heisman Trophy winner, who did worse than Johnny Manziel, you would get even treated worse. Not every 20 year old is the face of their university, that's where the difference lies. No one cares about these scrubs from Rice. This really isn't that complicated, even if you want to claim to the contrary. It's not fair and it's not going to be.

If this is the best response you can muster, than you are the one who doesn't get it. When someone wins the Heisman, YOU (and others like you in glass houses) hold him to a higher standard. Why? Where is Charles Barkley when you need him? The hypocrisy in your post is plain as day. No one cares about these scrubs from Rice. So talent level directly correlates to accountability level in your world. Good to know. Some truly ridiculous logic in this thread, but your post is the tops. Cheers. Go ahead and tear down my stance folks. I'm going to sleep with a clear conscience because I have the proper perspective and lack of judgment on this issue.

[Oriole85]

If this is the best response you can muster, than you are the one who doesn't get it. When someone wins the Heisman, YOU (and others like you in glass houses) hold him to a higher standard. Why? Where is Charles Barkley when you need him? The hypocrisy in your post is plain as day. No one cares about these scrubs from Rice. So talent level directly correlates to accountability level in your world. Good to know. Some truly ridiculous logic in this thread, but your post is the tops. Cheers. Go ahead and tear down my stance folks. I'm going to sleep with a clear conscience because I have the proper perspective and lack of judgment on this issue.

Looks like you have a little reading comprehension problem. I'll help you out a little here. Where did I say I personally held him to a higher standard? I said because of his status he was going to be held to a higher standard. You don't think Michael Jordan was held to a higher standard? Do you think Alex Rodriguez isn't being held to a higher standard right now than some minor leaguer who did the same thing? That's just how it works and it's unlikely to change, which is obviously very hard for you to accept.

 

Not sure what you're talking about with hypocrisy -- players from Rice just aren't going to get the attention that Johnny Manziel would. That's just the simple, cold truth. You're talking about players who probably wouldn't even get recognized on their own campus. Johnny Manziel had to go to online exclusive classes because he couldn't move around.

 

The media is going to spend more time tearing apart Manziel than the "other party." Do you really think the public is as interested in what happens to these Rice players? Did people watch the game on Saturday for Johnny Manziel or the Rice defenders?

 

I'm glad you think so highly of your opinion, nothing better than someone who can pat themselves on the back with their holier than thou attitude. I'll wait to see how you "spin" what I said now.

[McNulty]

Looks like you have a little reading comprehension problem. I'll help you out a little here. Where did I say I personally held him to a higher standard? I said because of his status he was going to be held to a higher standard. You don't think Michael Jordan was held to a higher standard? Do you think Alex Rodriguez isn't being held to a higher standard right now than some minor leaguer who did the same thing? That's just how it works and it's unlikely to change, which is obviously very hard for you to accept.

Not sure what you're talking about with hypocrisy -- players from Rice just aren't going to get the attention that Johnny Manziel would. That's just the simple, cold truth. You're talking about players who probably wouldn't even get recognized on their own campus. Johnny Manziel had to go to online exclusive classes because he couldn't move around.

The media is going to spend more time tearing apart Manziel than the "other party." Do you really think the public is as interested in what happens to these Rice players? Did people watch the game on Saturday for Johnny Manziel or the Rice defenders?

I'm glad you think so highly of your opinion, nothing better than someone who can pat themselves on the back with their holier than thou attitude. I'll wait to see how you "spin" what I said now.

Ah yes, the classic 'you have a reading comprehension problem' post.

You posted, "When you win the Heisman Trophy, you are held to a higher standard than some regular college student."

Is this some sort of law? A fact? Because if its not, and it isn't, then YOU are the one who said it.

This whole thing is a completely made up standard, mostly by the media. You seem incapable of thinking for yourself and are just accepting the faux indignant attitude towards his 'behavior' thrown at you. Which is your choice.

The hypocrisy exists because you are completely dismissing the instigators in this instance. Manziel reacted, stood up for himself, and you are placing 110% of the blame on Manziel. Do you see how ridiculous that is?

The main problem I have is that people want to blame Manziel for this, when its he's simply trying to deal with this as best he can. The kid is 20. How would you deal with this at his age? Quite poorly, based upon your posts.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Also over the Manziel discussion.

 

Will say that I have no problem with Manziel having a chip on his shoulder after being exploited by A&M like he was this off-season. Making him fly to meet donors? Ridiculous.

 

He got suspended a half, in-order for the NCAA to save face after meeting with him for 6+ hours. It's crazy that he can't profit on his own likeness anyway.

 

Going to parties, going to the ESPY's, going to Heat games? I don't see that as poor lifestyle choices. I see that as a kid having fun, and taking advantage of his sudden fame.

 

One should expect a young kid with that fame, and level of success to have some arrogance.

 

Getting the penalty Saturday? If that becomes some type of routine, then I'll agree it's an issue. Until then it's a one-off situation, which I don't believe equates to a lack of discipline.

 

I will say that for a guy with potentially mediocre NFL tools, he will be served well by eliminating some of these things which people perceive as distractions.

 

Right now, this season? His reputation from most will be determined solely by wins and losses.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Great points by McNulty and Stoner here. I guess I agree most with Chris when he says if the taunting/penalties become more of the norm then maybe we'd be justified in being more upset at the 20 year old. 

[Oriole85]

Ah yes, the classic 'you have a reading comprehension problem' post.

You posted, "When you win the Heisman Trophy, you are held to a higher standard than some regular college student."

Is this some sort of law? A fact? Because if its not, and it isn't, then YOU are the one who said it.

This whole thing is a completely made up standard, mostly by the media. You seem incapable of thinking for yourself and are just accepting the faux indignant attitude towards his 'behavior' thrown at you. Which is your choice.

The hypocrisy exists because you are completely dismissing the instigators in this instance. Manziel reacted, stood up for himself, and you are placing 110% of the blame on Manziel. Do you see how ridiculous that is?

The main problem I have is that people want to blame Manziel for this, when its he's simply trying to deal with this as best he can. The kid is 20. How would you deal with this at his age? Quite poorly, based upon your posts.
 

You are pretty naive if you think Johnny Student and Johnny Football will be held to the same standard by the general public.

 

There isn't a law, if he gets charged as a crime he should be treated like everyone else. College athletics last time I checked are a privilege. And coaches have the right to discipline them for their on-and-off the field conduct.

 

I like to think I can form my own opinion but since you know me so well, I'm glad you can come to a different conclusion.

 

I am not blaming it 110% on Manziel. Again, you need to READ, I've said said as such.

 

Just because you are wronged, doesn't give you a free pass to fight back. I guess you don't believe in being the better person in such situations. And I'm not sure how I'd deal with it. It doesn't really matter, I was never capable of playing football at Manziel's level. It comes with the territory.

[Oriole85]

Also over the Manziel discussion.

 

Will say that I have no problem with Manziel having a chip on his shoulder after being exploited by A&M like he was this off-season. Making him fly to meet donors? Ridiculous.

 

He got suspended a half, in-order for the NCAA to save face after meeting with him for 6+ hours. It's crazy that he can't profit on his own likeness anyway.

 

Going to parties, going to the ESPY's, going to Heat games? I don't see that as poor lifestyle choices. I see that as a kid having fun, and taking advantage of his sudden fame.

 

One should expect a young kid with that fame, and level of success to have some arrogance.

 

Getting the penalty Saturday? If that becomes some type of routine, then I'll agree it's an issue. Until then it's a one-off situation, which I don't believe equates to a lack of discipline.

 

I will say that for a guy with potentially mediocre NFL tools, he will be served well by eliminating some of these things which people perceive as distractions.

 

Right now, this season? His reputation from most will be determined solely by wins and losses.

In terms of the lifestyle choices, he knows that he's a target wherever he goes. I think he can do more of what he can control and that includes not making provocative social media posts. He's done a better job of that lately, he hasn't posted on Twitter in over a month. Yes, he's 20, but to say he isn't going to be held to a higher standard than the typical 20 year old isn't realistic. I don't think it's fair to expect perfection, just he needs to be a little more careful

 

Ultimately I agree here. Sports talent is a market, if he stands out among quarterbacks, he'll be fine in the long run barring some very big transgressions. And as you said, he'd be best served by eliminating the distractions. If you're an NFL prospect, you want every small advantage, so if NFL teams are concerned about his off-field matters, why not try to get rid of them? That falls into the field of things he can control.

[McNulty]

Ah yes, the classic 'you have a reading comprehension problem' post. You posted, "When you win the Heisman Trophy, you are held to a higher standard than some regular college student." Is this some sort of law? A fact? Because if its not, and it isn't, then YOU are the one who said it. This whole thing is a completely made up standard, mostly by the media. You seem incapable of thinking for yourself and are just accepting the faux indignant attitude towards his 'behavior' thrown at you. Which is your choice. The hypocrisy exists because you are completely dismissing the instigators in this instance. Manziel reacted, stood up for himself, and you are placing 110% of the blame on Manziel. Do you see how ridiculous that is? The main problem I have is that people want to blame Manziel for this, when its he's simply trying to deal with this as best he can. The kid is 20. How would you deal with this at his age? Quite poorly, based upon your posts.

You are pretty naive if you think Johnny Student and Johnny Football will be held to the same standard by the general public. There isn't a law, if he gets charged as a crime he should be treated like everyone else. College athletics last time I checked are a privilege. And coaches have the right to discipline them for their on-and-off the field conduct. I like to think I can form my own opinion but since you know me so well, I'm glad you can come to a different conclusion. I am not blaming it 110% on Manziel. Again, you need to READ, I've said said as such. Just because you are wronged, doesn't give you a free pass to fight back. I guess you don't believe in being the better person in such situations. And I'm not sure how I'd deal with it. It doesn't really matter, I was never capable of playing football at Manziel's level. It comes with the territory.

Haha ok Trea85. I'm done with ya

[Oriole85]

Haha ok Trea85. I'm done with ya

Not sure what that is supposed to mean, but nice to see you have to resort to namecalling.

[JeremyStrain]

Young athletes don't usually understand that PR is a huge chunk of being a pro. Its less fair to treat college kids like pros and expect them not to act like cocky turds if that is what they are...but the way we treat college sports, it happens.

This is kinda part of the "makeup" stuff you hear in scouting. Its not always a huge thing but questions about maturity and being able to command respect and lead guys 10 years older than you is a bigger issue for a qb.

My personal issue beyond the maturity thing is that what if he ends up in a huddle with a couple alumni of the teams he mocks this season? Also do you want your 6-9 year old kid watching him act like that? Much like pro athletes, college athletes are unwitting role models, its not fair but it comes with wanting to be a pro athlete.

[Oriole85]

Young athletes don't usually understand that PR is a huge chunk of being a pro. Its less fair to treat college kids like pros and expect them not to act like cocky turds if that is what they are...but the way we treat college sports, it happens.

This is kinda part of the "makeup" stuff you hear in scouting. Its not always a huge thing but questions about maturity and being able to command respect and lead guys 10 years older than you is a bigger issue for a qb.

My personal issue beyond the maturity thing is that what if he ends up in a huddle with a couple alumni of the teams he mocks this season? Also do you want your 6-9 year old kid watching him act like that? Much like pro athletes, college athletes are unwitting role models, its not fair but it comes with wanting to be a pro athlete.

Great post!

 

The QB more than any other position in major US team sports isn't just about the X's and O's, but the de facto leader on the field in most cases. While I do believe talent is the most important, the off-the-field stuff does come into play here moreso than most position.

 

In terms of the whole role model thing, that's another issue. I see both sides of that one. I'm not a parent but I can imagine those who are pay more attention to that kind of stuff.

 

Completely agree with this kind of stuff coming with the territory.

[DJ MC]

My personal issue beyond the maturity thing is that what if he ends up in a huddle with a couple alumni of the teams he mocks this season?

 

Wouldn't the problem there be with said alumni?

[JeremyStrain]

Wouldn't the problem there be with said alumni?

 

From a chemistry/respect standpoint it's hard enough for a young QB to lead a huddle as it is, then if you add some ill-will between them over something like that (players get real sensitive about their alma maters) it could make things much harder.

 

I had never really thought much of it, because I'm of the you are being paid to be professional, so while on the clock, act like it school of thought, BUT with RG3 last year here in WAS, a good point was brought up all season that the vets on the team took to him right away and they respected him because he was very much about being professional, leading the team, and not about personal statistics or draft status. His OL and WR said all season it was so rare to see such a young QB be so willing to listen to his guys, never think he's better than anyone and be all about getting better that by the time the regular season started they had all bought in to him 100% and voted him a captain.

 

I imagine some guys around the league have had troubles with that, and it might help explain why some college QB look like stars in the NFL and fall flat on their face. I dunno for sure, I just think that the NFL QB is the highest profile job in sports and make up and attitude affect it more than others.

[McNulty]

Haha ok Trea85. I'm done with ya

Not sure what that is supposed to mean, but nice to see you have to resort to namecalling.

It means that you are immune to logic on the moral issues. I'm not going to waste my time trying to get through to you.

[Oriole85]

It means that you are immune to logic on the moral issues. I'm not going to waste my time trying to get through to you.

Why don't you just say that instead of resorting to namecalling? Makes you look small when you have to use such a tactic.