51 replies to this topic

[russsnyder]

Did you read the article, or just the part I quoted? He specifically mentioned Williams a few times.

Also noting that Posnanski just wrote a book listing the 100 best players of all time, and had Bonds at #3.

Also:

I didn't read whole article.

What you posted was sufficient.

[Mike B]

It is interesting that no pitchers are considered.

 

Or for that matter catchers.

[Mackus]

It is interesting that no pitchers are considered.

 

Or for that matter catchers.

 

Typically shorter careers for catchers and much lower offensive numbers.  Very few guys like Bench or Piazza who have offensive profiles that can rival the best at other positions (Bench's don't, actually).  The reasons for those shortcomings are very obvious, so I'm on board with valuing catchers higher, but its a tough bias to overcome when comparing to the best of all time.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I'm going to end up posting the whole article in pieces, but here's what Posnanski said about Koufax, and pitchers in general:

 

The first was Sandy Koufax. In my view, Koufax is baseball’s singular legend right now. He is the player whose very name inspires emotions, tears, smiles, nostalgia, even if you were too young to see him pitch, as I was. Sandy Koufax, unquestionably, is the player who brings out the little kid in other players. He would carry “Greatest Living Ballplayer” with grace.

 

But… Sandy Koufax was a pitcher. There are two problems with that. One, the title “Greatest Living Ballplayer” just seems to point to an every-day player. I’m not saying pitchers are not ballplayers. But there are plenty of hitters who would argue that way, and, anyway. I’m not sure pitchers are the first thing anyone thinks when seeing that word, “Ballplayer.” If you saw a movie titled, “Ballplayer,” would you think it was about a pitcher?

 

Two, I wouldn’t say that Koufax is the greatest living pitcher, lower case. That’s not a deal-breaker—I think there were greater ballplayers than DiMaggio when he was the GLB—but when you’re talking about Greg Maddux and Randy Johnson and Clemens and Pedro Martinez, not to mention Steve Carlton and Tom Glavine and Clayton Kershaw and Mariano Rivera and others, I’m just not sure that Koufax, for all his awesomeness, quite carries the day.

[Mackus]

Agree Koufax' legend is better than his actual performance.  He's not even the greatest living left-handed Dodgers starting pitcher, IMO.  I think Kershaw is better: more innings, much better ERA+, same Cy Young wins and MVPs plus way better other finishes.  Even Koufax' 5-year peak, which was insane, is something Kershaw can match in everything except IP.  Koufax was obviously cut short by injuries, but you can't assume he'd have continued his dominance into his 30s.  Well, you can, but I wouldn't.

[mdrunning]

Ken Griffey Jr??

Eddie Murray?

 

Most RBI by a switch hitter (1917)
Most sacrifice flies all-time (128)

One of only seven players with 3,000 career hits and 500 HR. The others are Mays, Aaron, A-Rod, Pujols, Raffy and Miggy.

19 Grand Slams ranks 4th all-time

Second all-time in HR by a switch hitter (504), trailing only The Mick (536).

Most career assists by a first baseman (1865)

 

Ed-die currently sits 13th overall in career RBI and 28th in career HR (504). If you take out all of his homeruns, Murray would be only one of two players in MLB history to still surpass at least 2,500 hits. Hank Aaron is the only player in the 500 homerun club who would still have 3,000 hits if you took away all of his homeruns.

[russsnyder]

Eddie Murray?

Most RBI by a switch hitter (1917)
Most sacrifice flies all-time (128)
One of only seven players with 3,000 career hits and 500 HR. The others are Mays, Aaron, A-Rod, Pujols, Raffy and Miggy.
19 Grand Slams ranks 4th all-time
Second all-time in HR by a switch hitter (504), trailing only The Mick (536).
Most career assists by a first baseman (1865)

Ed-die currently sits 13th overall in career RBI and 28th in career HR (504). If you take out all of his homeruns, Murray would be only one of two players in MLB history to still surpass at least 2,500 hits. Hank Aaron is the only player in the 500 homerun club who would still have 3,000 hits if you took away all of his homeruns.

I like it...a lot.

[BSLRoseKatz]

I mean Eddie's a deserving first-ballot HOFer but I'm not even sure he'd beat out Cal or Palmer for the best living Oriole 

[russsnyder]

I mean Eddie's a deserving first-ballot HOFer but I'm not even sure he'd beat out Cal or Palmer for the best living Oriole

He may not, but that doesn't mean that he's not the better player. Ripken & Palmer played their entire careers in Baltimore. That factors in more than ability in the "greatest living Oriole" conversation.

[mweb08]

Gunnar is the greatest living Oriole!

 

OK, so not to get ahead of myself, it's the SS that is often sitting behind the plate in the first row. 

 

He has a career rWAR of 95.9 to Eddie's 68.7. Palmer 67.6 and Mussina 82.8 btw. 

 

Eddie was the better hitter by a fair amount, but defensive position and ability give Cal the overall advantage. 

[RichardZ]

Pujols, for sure clean.

Sarcasm? There were rumors around Pujols due to his trainer being connected to steroids. Never failed a test. Neither did Bonds or any of the Biogenesis guys. The tests catch about 1% of the offenders. My completely uneducated guess.

[mweb08]

Sarcasm? There were rumors around Pujols due to his trainer being connected to steroids. Never failed a test. Neither did Bonds or any of the Biogenesis guys. The tests catch about 1% of the offenders. My completely uneducated guess.

Yes to your question.