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Greatest Living Player


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#21 mweb08

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Posted 22 June 2024 - 09:05 PM

Uh yup.

He became the poster boy for roidz before ARod was the one to bear the burden.

I'm not saying it's fair that Bonds bore the brunt, but he deserved it. Maybe that's talking out of both sides of my mouth, but let's not split hairs here: he was already well on his way to being one of the greatest players to ever play the game. And then he borked it all up.

That said, he's a prick. Where David Ortiz gets all the love and adulation (despite being a busted PED user), Bonds will wear it for the rest of his days.


Alright well at least you seem to realize that it's not fair and hopefully you realize that this argument does not reside upon a particularly logical foundation.

#22 CantonJester

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Posted 22 June 2024 - 10:13 PM

Alright well at least you seem to realize that it's not fair and hopefully you realize that this argument does not reside upon a particularly logical foundation.

 

No, it's pretty logical to me as to why Barry Bonds does not belong in the 'greatest ballplayer of all time' discussion.



#23 mweb08

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Posted 22 June 2024 - 10:25 PM

No, it's pretty logical to me as to why Barry Bonds does not belong in the 'greatest ballplayer of all time' discussion.


Not sure why this is your response but ok.

#24 CantonJester

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Posted 22 June 2024 - 10:32 PM

Not sure why this is your response but ok.

 

 

In the context of the topic of this thread, my response makes all the sense you need from it.

 

As for Bonds getting a 'raw' deal? I understand the sentiment, but at the end of the day? Screw him.

 

I say that as a guy who believes they should all be let into Cooperstown. Just tell the entire story. 



#25 dude

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Posted 23 June 2024 - 06:56 PM

I think you have to have some asterisk on the steroid line.

 

It's Bonds if you don't care.  If you don't recall what an absurdity is was, go look at his BBRef page in his late 30s.

 

If you do care, then ARoid takes a hit to.

 

That leaves you with Pujols.



#26 mweb08

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Posted 23 June 2024 - 09:31 PM

I think you have to have some asterisk on the steroid line.

It's Bonds if you don't care. If you don't recall what an absurdity is was, go look at his BBRef page in his late 30s.

If you do care, then ARoid takes a hit to.

That leaves you with Pujols.


Pujols, for sure clean.

#27 russsnyder

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Posted 24 June 2024 - 08:08 AM

I think you have to have some asterisk on the steroid line.

It's Bonds if you don't care. If you don't recall what an absurdity is was, go look at his BBRef page in his late 30s.

If you do care, then ARoid takes a hit to.

That leaves you with Pujols.

Pujols falls under suspicion as much as anyone else who played during his time. Interesting that Jeff Bagwell's career fell under more scrutiny than Pujols.
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#28 russsnyder

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Posted 24 June 2024 - 08:09 AM

Bonds is the greatest living player right now IMO.
<p>"F IT!, Let's hit." Ted Williams

#29 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 24 June 2024 - 09:23 AM

Here's what Posnanski said about Bonds's case as GLB.

 

I have absolutely no doubt at all that Barry Bonds is the greatest living ballplayer, lowercase. No doubt. Bonds could do everything, just like Mays, just like DiMaggio. And toward the end of his career, when he bulked up, he became the most dangerous and awesome hitter this game has ever seen. If we were still looking at greatest living ballplayer the way they did in the 1940s and ’50s, when Ty Cobb was the acknowledged one, yes, absolutely, that’s Barry Bonds.

 

But Greatest Living Ballplayer? No. I wouldn’t give Bonds that title. I’m not saying that specifically because of the steroid business or any of the other negative stuff that surrounded Bonds. I’m saying that because whatever you want to say about DiMaggio’s ego and insistence on being recognized as the GLB, he absolutely imbued the title with royalty.

 

No, it’s about so much more than baseball performance, The GLB is the legendary player that other legendary players swoon over. The GLB is the superstar parents and grandparents point to as baseball’s platonic ideal. The GLB represents so much more than himself—he represents 150-plus years of baseball, from Ned Williamson to Honus Wagner to Ty Cobb to Joe DiMaggio to Willie Mays.

 

All due respect, that’s just not Barry Bonds. He’s not even in the Hall of Fame… and from what I can tell, none of the all-time great players want him there.

 

Ditto Roger Clemens. Ditto Alex Rodriguez.



#30 russsnyder

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Posted 24 June 2024 - 11:59 AM

Here's what Posnanski said about Bonds's case as GLB.

Nice job by Posnanski by leaving out Ted Williams as a great player that other players swooned over. I guess he missed the 1999 All Star Game. I'm also sure a circa 1880's dad told his son to be like old Ned Williamson. Lol. Helpful hint, baseball players were looked at as literal fighting, drinking, bums by many Americans at that point in time.

I think more active players through the years swooned over Mays and Mantle more than Joe DiMaggio. That's because everyone and their mother knew that DiMaggio couldn't hold Mays or Mantle's jock. They also let old Joltin Joe run with the title because it was so important to him.

This Posnanski fella probably was one of the guys who wrote articles to attack the character of Bonds. Who in their opinion committed the greatest crime in baseball history by making a mockery of the HR record. This same guy probably slobbered all over two steroid freaks ( McGwire & Sosa) during the great HR chase that "saved baseball."

Last note, Bonds has the highest WAR of any living baseball player according to Baseball Reference.

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#31 Mike B

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Posted 24 June 2024 - 12:00 PM

Ken Griffey Jr??


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#32 makoman

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Posted 24 June 2024 - 12:21 PM

Ken Griffey Jr??

If everyone had to quit at age 30 he'd have as good a case as anybody. 


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#33 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 24 June 2024 - 12:22 PM

If everyone had to quit at age 30 he'd have as good a case as anybody. 


Was going to write the same thing.  If he retires after the 1st year in Cincinnati; it would be interesting to see how he was regarded. 
 



#34 Mike B

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Posted 24 June 2024 - 12:35 PM

If everyone had to quit at age 30 he'd have as good a case as anybody. 

Very fair.  The injuries certainly slowed him but I always felt like what he accomplished was legit.

IMO, 630 bombs to go along with other impressive stats get him into the conversation.


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#35 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 24 June 2024 - 12:35 PM

Nice job by Posnanski by leaving out Ted Williams as a great player that other players swooned over. 

 

Did you read the article, or just the part I quoted?  He specifically mentioned Williams a few times.

 

Also noting that Posnanski just wrote a book listing the 100 best players of all time, and had Bonds at #3.

 

Also:

 

First: Let’s start at the very beginning, a very good place to start. The very first reference I can find to the phrase “Greatest Living Ballplayer” is in the Chicago Tribune in 1887. And the ballplayer the paper was referencing? Chicago Cubs third baseman Ned Williamson.



#36 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 24 June 2024 - 12:36 PM

The Greatest Living Ballplayer—the player who pulled the sword out of the stone for me—is Ken Griffey Jr.

 

I mean, do I think, all in all, that Griffey was greater than the players listed above? No, I don’t. He was hurt a lot and wasn’t ever really a great player after age 30. But, when Junior was right, he was as great as anyone who ever played this game. And, like DiMaggio, like Mays (like others, too, Aaron, Musial, Clemente and so on), he inspired this feeling inside us fans, this wonder, this giddiness. He was magical that way.

 

And he carries himself as the GLB. Old Hall of Famers love him and the way he played. Incoming Hall of Famers idolize him. Griffey has started to be more comfortable in the public eye after years away. He’s doing commercials. He’s making appearances. He’s the best of baseball. He’s my Greatest Living Ballplayer.



#37 makoman

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Posted 24 June 2024 - 12:42 PM

Very fair.  The injuries certainly slowed him but I always felt like what he accomplished was legit.

IMO, 630 bombs to go along with other impressive stats get him into the conversation.

Yeah, he's definitely a what could have been type of guy, and even what he was is pretty much inner circle HOF. 99 games per year after age 30, 140 games per year prior (even with 2 of them strike shortened). A relatively healthy 30s and you're probably looking at best of all time, not just GLB. (again, assuming we are throwing out Bonds)



#38 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 24 June 2024 - 12:44 PM

Yeah, he's definitely a what could have been type of guy, and even what he was is pretty much inner circle HOF. 99 games per year after age 30, 140 games per year prior (even with 2 of them strike shortened). A relatively healthy 30s and you're probably looking at best of all time, not just GLB.

 

You could kind of say this same thing about DiMaggio, who was the 'greatest living ballplayer' for 30 years.



#39 makoman

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Posted 24 June 2024 - 12:46 PM

You could kind of say this same thing about DiMaggio, who was the 'greatest living ballplayer' for 30 years.

Probably others too, this is true. Trout is going to go down like that. Once you get to comparing the best of the best longevity and health is as important as anything.



#40 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 24 June 2024 - 12:48 PM

Probably others too, this is true. Trout is going to go down like that. Once you get to comparing the best of the best longevity and health is as important as anything.

 

The argument that Posnanski is making (and that I kind of agree with it, although I hate it when people make similar distinctions about the MVP) is that 'greatest' living player is different from 'best' living player.






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