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Greatest Living Player


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#1 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 08:21 AM

CBS Sports: Who is now the greatest living MLB player? Cases for Barry Bonds, Mike Schmidt, Roger Clemens and more

https://www.cbssport...emens-and-more/



#2 makoman

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 09:24 AM

It’s obviously Bonds unless you just decide he doesn’t count.
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#3 Mackus

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 09:34 AM

Its been Bonds for the past 20+ years
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#4 BSLRoseKatz

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 09:45 AM

If you're willing to count production regardless of PEDs I think you could at least entertain an argument for A-Rod over Bonds just based on the positional value of how productive he was at shortstop in his prime combined with what he did once the Yankees moved him to third 



#5 makoman

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 10:19 AM

If you're willing to count production regardless of PEDs I think you could at least entertain an argument for A-Rod over Bonds just based on the positional value of how productive he was at shortstop in his prime combined with what he did once the Yankees moved him to third


Wouldn’t WAR be a pretty good shorthand for that? Especially since, while their careers don’t exactly overlap, it’s not like you are comparing completely different eras. And it’s not remotely close.

#6 BSLRoseKatz

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 11:35 AM

Wouldn’t WAR be a pretty good shorthand for that? Especially since, while their careers don’t exactly overlap, it’s not like you are comparing completely different eras. And it’s not remotely close.

 

Yeah I'm aware WAR tries to measure it, I'm just always personally gonna give extra weight to outstanding offensive seasons at positions not known for their offense. In 2009 Mauer had 7.8 bWAR while Pujols had 9.7 bWAR but I'd personally consider Mauer the more valuable player that year just because C has fewer elite offensive seasons than 1B, same with SS compared to LF



#7 CantonJester

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 11:54 AM

I toss the PED users aside when I consider the best-of arguments.

 

It sucks Trout’s career is playing out in Anaheim for a lousy owner, and now it’s worsened by the fact he’s now often-injured. 

 

He should be the one of the greatest all time players (he is), and if he can get healthy again, hopefully he can claim the title of ‘greatest living player.’

 

Other than that happening? It’s Rickey Henderson. 



#8 NewMarketSean

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 12:12 PM

Bonds if it's anyone. Vlad if PEDs exclude him.


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#9 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 02:21 PM

Its Bonds. Not even close.
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#10 CantonJester

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 03:00 PM

If you're willing to count production regardless of PEDs I think you could at least entertain an argument for A-Rod over Bonds just based on the positional value of how productive he was at shortstop in his prime combined with what he did once the Yankees moved him to third 

 

If you're willing (insistent, really) to include PED abusers, then it's Bonds, period. He borked the record books, because he was a spiteful fool who took exception to the adulation McGwire and Sosa were getting for their own fraudulent run at history. It's a shame, because his own pride got in the way of a likely run at one of the top half dozen players in the history of the sport.

 

Instead, he'll be a bar room argument for some, and a joke to the rest. 



#11 mweb08

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 03:38 PM

Most of the guys that are in the discussion for best clean living baseball player almost assuredly also used PEDs. Many of them obviously didn't get caught so a tip of the hat to them. In other cases, we choose to ignore some forms of performance enhancing drugs for various reasons, mostly I suspect so people don't have to also vilify their and their parents' childhood heroes.


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#12 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 04:28 PM

Posnanski says Griffey.

My Choice for Greatest Living Ballplayer… (joeposnanski.com)

#13 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 05:30 PM

Bonds

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#14 mdrunning

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Posted 22 June 2024 - 12:06 AM

If you look past the PEDs, it's Bonds. Without the PEDs, he was probably better than anyone else of his era. He was great, then he cheated and he got insanely better. The sad thing is he didn't have to chemically enhance to go down as one of the all-time greats.

 

If not, then I'd say Sandy Koufax. Recency bias, I realize. Koufax and Mays represented a generation that, like WW2 veterans, is rapidly dwindling. Once guys from that era are gone, then players such as Rickey Henderson, Griffey, Jr., et al, will move up in the pecking order.



#15 CantonJester

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Posted 22 June 2024 - 08:57 AM

Most of the guys that are in the discussion for best clean living baseball player almost assuredly also used PEDs. Many of them obviously didn't get caught so a tip of the hat to them. In other cases, we choose to ignore some forms of performance enhancing drugs for various reasons, mostly I suspect so people don't have to also vilify their and their parents' childhood heroes.

 

Jury nullification has entered the chat.



#16 CantonJester

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Posted 22 June 2024 - 09:04 AM

If you look past the PEDs, it's Bonds. Without the PEDs, he was probably better than anyone else of his era. He was great, then he cheated and he got insanely better. The sad thing is he didn't have to chemically enhance to go down as one of the all-time greats.

 

If not, then I'd say Sandy Koufax. Recency bias, I realize. Koufax and Mays represented a generation that, like WW2 veterans, is rapidly dwindling. Once guys from that era are gone, then players such as Rickey Henderson, Griffey, Jr., et al, will move up in the pecking order.

 

Maddux and Pedro had longer careers than Koufax. 

 

Bonds made a perverse joke of the sport, and if there was anything good out of that guy, it’s that his blatant steroid usage spurred the gov’t to do what MLB refused (clean up the sport).



#17 mweb08

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Posted 22 June 2024 - 10:27 AM

Maddux and Pedro had longer careers than Koufax.

Bonds made a perverse joke of the sport, and if there was anything good out of that guy, it’s that his blatant steroid usage spurred the gov’t to do what MLB refused (clean up the sport).


How did Bonds make a perverse joke of the sport?

#18 CantonJester

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Posted 22 June 2024 - 06:38 PM

How did Bonds make a perverse joke of the sport?

 

Uh, he turned 34 and then took his game to an entirely different level by taking copious amounts of injections in his butt. 

 

Again, he was on his way to being one of the best players in the history of the sport before he chose that path. It cost him his legacy, but whaddya gonna do. 



#19 mweb08

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Posted 22 June 2024 - 07:53 PM

Uh, he turned 34 and then took his game to an entirely different level by taking copious amounts of injections in his butt.

Again, he was on his way to being one of the best players in the history of the sport before he chose that path. It cost him his legacy, but whaddya gonna do.


Uh so simply by doing the same type of thing as most of his peers but by having better results?

#20 CantonJester

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Posted 22 June 2024 - 08:09 PM

Uh so simply by doing the same type of thing as most of his peers but by having better results?

 

Uh yup. 

 

He became the poster boy for roidz before ARod was the one to bear the burden.

 

I'm not saying it's fair that Bonds bore the brunt, but he deserved it. Maybe that's talking out of both sides of my mouth, but let's not split hairs here: he was already well on his way to being one of the greatest players to ever play the game. And then he borked it all up.

 

That said, he's a prick. Where David Ortiz gets all the love and adulation (despite being a busted PED user), Bonds will wear it for the rest of his days. 






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