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2024 Ravens General Talk


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#41 Ravens2006

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 07:32 AM

Players make mistakes, yes. The turnovers played a big big role in the final score. I get it. But trying to justify the OVERALL game plan is giving the staff a free pass. Which is what seems to happen every year.

When you don't try to run the football basically AT ALL with your RBs, it makes it easier to defend all aspects of the passing game.

Your DEs can rush with reckless abandon at the snap. Things like that can result in a DE blowing around your LT and getting a strip sack.

Your safeties don't have to worry about holding a second to see if the RB takes the handoff. Things like that can result in DBs dropping back faster in to coverage and getting an INT. Or they tend to coverge faster on the receiver carrying the ball.

Every year this happens. Complete lack of any remote semblance of balance with your running game and actual running BACKS makes you one dimensional and easier to defend. Easier to defend means your defenders are decisive and more likely to make plays.

Lamar's skills are best utilized when a defense has everything to worry about. If folks have watched this team for the last 5 years and can't see that, I don't know what to say. Last year's Cincy game with Huntley playing game manager to the absolute zenith of his very limited capabilities, they took a first and goal and ran three straight plays asking guys to do what they DON'T do best, and on the third play the ball goes 99.5 yards the other way.

This staff always has and probably always will fail to put their players in the best position for success especially in the biggest games, for some inexplicable reason. Ego. Arrogance. Stubbornness. All three. Who knows.


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#42 Ravens2006

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 07:55 AM

Here are the 2019 and 2023 numbers...

 

Lamar Pass+Sack+Rush vs RB Rushing Attempts

 

2019:  59+4+20 = 83 Lamar        6+3 = 9

2023:  37+4+8 = 49 Lamar         3+3 = 6

 

Those two home playoff losses... 147 "offensive plays"

 

132 of them were on Lamar to make something happen.

15 of them were on the RBs to make something happen

 

132 to 15.

 

132 to 15.

 

88.6% of offensive plays were on Lamar to make it happen.

 

132 to 15.

 

There's a difference between throwing more because it's a passing league, throwing more because you're trailing, throwing more because your QB is pretty good... and being flat out idiotic.  But 88.6% of snaps on Lamar to make it happen?  

 

That's being one dimensional.  By choice.


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#43 Slidemaster

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 07:58 AM

Here are the 2019 and 2023 numbers...

Lamar Pass+Sack+Rush vs RB Rushing Attempts

2019: 59+4+20 = 83 Lamar 6+3 = 9
2023: 37+4+8 = 49 Lamar 3+3 = 6

Those two home playoff losses... 147 "offensive plays"

132 of them were on Lamar to make something happen.
15 of them were on the RBs to make something happen

132 to 15.

132 to 15.

88.5% of offensive plays were on Lamar to make it happen.

132 to 15.

On top of that, when you have a QB who feels the pressure and plays his worst when he needs to play his best, the team isn't going to win many games with an offensive breakdown like that.

If the Ravens have a prayer or winning a superbowl, they need to take the ball out of Lamar's hands more. I'm not saying for him not to be an offensive focal point, but he's not superman in the playoffs. Hell, he isn't even Jared Goff.

#44 Ravens2006

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 08:12 AM

On top of that, when you have a QB who feels the pressure and plays his worst when he needs to play his best, the team isn't going to win many games with an offensive breakdown like that.

If the Ravens have a prayer or winning a superbowl, they need to take the ball out of Lamar's hands more. I'm not saying for him not to be an offensive focal point, but he's not superman in the playoffs. Hell, he isn't even Jared Goff.

 

99.9% of QBs, even the best ones, can't succeed when their offense is completely one dimensional. 

 

Looked at last year's Superbowl play by play... Chiefs trailed the Eagles by 10 at halftime.  Their first drive of the second half... with the GREAT Patrick Mahomes...  Run, Run, Run, Pass, Run, Pass, Run, Scramble, Pass, Run... TD.  10 play drive, 6 RB carries including a short yardage rushing TD.

 

Trailing by 10 at the half!!! I mean, how can you run the football AT ALL when you're trailing by 10???  

 

The Chiefs rushed as many times on that ONE DRIVE in the Superbowl, trailing by 10, as Team John gave their RBs the whole game yesterday.


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#45 85Knight

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 08:24 AM

Even nationally the Ravens are getting beat up for a poor game plan. The lack of running attempts was inexcusable for a team that leads the NFL in rushing. They ran plays in the first half that were completely out of character especially on first down. They coached as if they were the lesser team and needed some trickery to keep up. The offensive coaches failed in the first half and the players failed in the second half. Overall just an epic failure by the entire offense.
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#46 Ravens2006

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 08:34 AM

I lied, forgot to include Zay's two sweeps... so 132 to 17.  Sorry, I guess that's more balanced then I thought.

 

132 to 17.

 

Never mind, that's more reasonable.  Balanced even!



#47 SonicAttack

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 08:43 AM

The Raven's should again win the AFC regular season and be the #1 seed. 



#48 Slidemaster

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 08:56 AM

The Raven's should again win the AFC regular season and be the #1 seed.


Who the F cares? They can't win in the playoffs.

#49 85Knight

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 08:57 AM

I lied, forgot to include Zay's two sweeps... so 132 to 17. Sorry, I guess that's more balanced then I thought.

132 to 17.

Never mind, that's more reasonable. Balanced even!


This was an epic failure by the entire offense, coaches and players. Lamar and Flowers teamed up on a great play to bail the coaches out for the only td only to turn around and cough it up in the endzone later on. The irony of a colossal failure by the entire offense.

#50 Biggsy

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 09:06 AM

I 100% believe that the outcome doesn't change if Hill or Edwards got more carries. They just aren't those type of difference makers. We moved the ball the whole 2nd half.

They got to the 2 inch line, the 20, and the 25 on three separate drives. It wasn't like the pass was ineffective. I'd get the criticism if they were stonewalled all game, and struggled to get close to the redzone. They didn't. They were down 10 points, and they had 3 drives that went deep into KC territory, and walked away with 3 points.

The drive of the INT, they had 3:40 seconds left. They couldn't afford to run the ball.

Not running the ball didn't lose this game. Not taking care of the ball lost it. The Flowers fumble was the game.

I don't disagree that the gameplan was bad. I would prefer more balance. If that's your argument, it's valid.

However, if you're arguing that being more balanced would have changed the outcome, I disagree. Once again, Ravens moved the ball through the air the whole 2nd half. They just couldn't finish. The one drive that stalled in a 3 and out, involved 2 runs on first and second down, putting them behind the chains. Really believe more runs would have caused more drives like that, then positive drives. You'll never convince me that Hill and Edwards would have made a big difference. They just aren't playmakers like that.
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#51 Mackus

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 09:23 AM

 They coached as if they were the lesser team and needed some trickery to keep up

 

I agree with this.  The sweeps to Zay were uncharacteristic of what they usually do, especially to go back to it.  The 4th down attempt (that was converted) in the 1st half was a desperate decision when we weren't in desperate straights.  Harbaugh made some decisions like he thought they were underdogs and needed something special to even up the odds.


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#52 SonicAttack

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 09:26 AM

Who the F cares? They can't win in the playoffs.

They did destroy the Texans, but I hear ya, It's SB or bust.



#53 Slidemaster

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 09:28 AM

They did destroy the Texans, but I hear ya, It's SB or bust.

Because they weren't scared of the Texans. They were obviously scared of the Chiefs.

With that said, I believe C.J. Stroud has a better chance to win a SB over the next 5 years than Lamar. I honestly believe more QBs than not have a better chance to win a SB than Lamar at this point, because Lamar has proven he can't at least to this point in his career. Give me a talented unknown over a known choke artist.

#54 85Knight

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 09:33 AM

I 100% believe that the outcome doesn't change if Hill or Edwards got more carries. They just aren't those type of difference makers. We moved the ball the whole 2nd half.

They got to the 2 inch line, the 20, and the 25 on three separate drives. It wasn't like the pass was ineffective. I'd get the criticism if they were stonewalled all game, and struggled to get close to the redzone. They didn't. They were down 10 points, and they had 3 drives that went deep into KC territory, and walked away with 3 points.

The drive of the INT, they had 3:40 seconds left. They couldn't afford to run the ball.

Not running the ball didn't lose this game. Not taking care of the ball lost it. The Flowers fumble was the game.

I don't disagree that the gameplan was bad. I would prefer more balance. If that's your argument, it's valid.

However, if you're arguing that being more balanced would have changed the outcome, I disagree. Once again, Ravens moved the ball through the air the whole 2nd half. They just couldn't finish. The one drive that stalled in a 3 and out, involved 2 runs on first and second down, putting them behind the chains. Really believe more runs would have caused more drives like that, then positive drives. You'll never convince me that Hill and Edwards would have made a big difference. They just aren't playmakers like that.


Both can be true. They should have run the ball more but they still could have won if not for the turnovers. They were afforded the opportunity to overcome a poor offensive gameplan because the defense shut KC down in the 2nd half. Because of that 2nd half shuout they only needed a couple of olays to pull off the win.

The problem with not running the ball is that the entire offense and especially Lamar get out of sync. When this team rushes for 150 yds they put up atleast 30 pts pretty easily. The first half didn't look anything like what we've seen from this offense all season. They only scored because of a great play by Lamar and Flowers.

You can't justify not giving the running backs the ball simply because the defense pitched a 2nd half shutout and kept the game close.

#55 bmore_ken

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 09:57 AM

Here are the 2019 and 2023 numbers...

 

Lamar Pass+Sack+Rush vs RB Rushing Attempts

 

2019:  59+4+20 = 83 Lamar        6+3 = 9

2023:  37+4+8 = 49 Lamar         3+3 = 6

 

Those two home playoff losses... 147 "offensive plays"

 

132 of them were on Lamar to make something happen.

15 of them were on the RBs to make something happen

 

132 to 15.

 

132 to 15.

 

88.6% of offensive plays were on Lamar to make it happen.

 

132 to 15.

 

There's a difference between throwing more because it's a passing league, throwing more because you're trailing, throwing more because your QB is pretty good... and being flat out idiotic.  But 88.6% of snaps on Lamar to make it happen?  

 

That's being one dimensional.  By choice.

And one guy is responsible for that. AGAIN!!!!



#56 Ravens2006

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 10:39 AM

Nobody can guarantee that they win that game with a different game plan. Again, that's NOT the main issue. What we DO know is that they have gone home, at home, 2 of the last 4 playoff runs while completely getting away from the RBs. One person is ultimately responsible for that happening. 132 plays of Lamar running or looking to pass, 17 plays of someone else bearing the load. It makes it harder to succeed when the defense doesn't care about any running threat from any running back. Which leads to more turnovers, because pass rushers can go without hesitation and DBs can cover without any hesitation. All 3 turnovers came on passing attempts, even when one was completed. The one dimensional nature of what they do on the biggest stage contributes to the player mistakes.
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#57 jamesdean

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 11:14 AM

I won't watch a second of it but if Mike McDaniel has half a brain, he'll construct a game plan for the Super Bowl that is the complete opposite of what Monken designed.  What NOT to do.  I'll be stunned if McCaffrey doesn't run for 100 yards and the 49ers don't pile up 200 on the ground. 

 

After thinking about the game this morning, another thing that annoyed the living hell out of me is Lamar holding on to the frickin ball for what seemed like an eternity instead of just taking off.  He had lanes up the gut several times and chose to ignore it. "I want to be a passer first" Lamar reared it's ugly head at the worst possible time yesterday.  He looked confused, hesitant, his throwing mechanics were awful again and just played like crap.  I don't normally like to use the word "choke" but I think that's exactly what he did yesterday.  The game plan didn't do him any favors but he would have been hard pressed to beat anyone yesterday with the way he played. 



#58 Mike in STL

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 03:35 PM

Well, that royally sucked. Choke is appropriate when you had the historically great regular season you had. Every team they were compared to, be it DVOA, wins against teams x amount of games over .500, scoring difference in those games, defensive prowess of sacks, takeaways, scoring D, all were aligned with past Super Bowl champions. This era of the team got one step closer than they ever have been, but why is it baby steps when other teams just steam roll to the top? Why do they have to learn not to get baited into penalties, or experience a championship game first before they actually can perform decently in one?

 

They blew it. They ran into the boogie man. To be the man you have to beat the man, and the Chiefs, despite having a down year by their standards, still hold the trophy and are "the man." They didn't do it. 

 

On to next year, what's on tap? Healthy Burrow, healthy Herbert with a successful head coach, healthy Rodgers, Stroud looking primed to take the next step. The Fins when they avoid the cold. Say what you want about the Bills, earned the 2 seed. Mahomes not going anywhere. Other question marks, does Lawrence have a prove it-breakout year in him? Is Richardson a spark plug on the Colts that could exceed expectations? Even the Broncos turned the corner after a horrendous start. The AFC is loaded, save for the Pats, Raiders, and Titans. Earning the one seed is hard. With all the dominoes that fell, it certainly made it easier for the Ravens to earn that and have the easiest road to the Super Bowl. I highly doubt as many domines fall next year, and navigating your way to the top in this conference will be very tough. All the more reason it was so important to capitalize on all the good fortune this past season gave them. 

 

MacDonald seems to be as good as gone. WAS and SEA Holding out on hirings until more teams were eliminated. Monken, I think stays. Harbaugh, just going to have to live with a spectator head coach, who dances like an idiot for divisional round wins like that is the end goal, until he's ready to spectate from his couch. 

 

Who takes MacDonald's place? Do they keep it in house? Anthony Weaver, or Zachary Orr? Both of their units were excellent this season. Weaver has the Asst. Head Coach title. 

 

What do they need? I'd say RB, but what for if you only give it to him 3 times in a playoff game?

 

Notable UFAs

QB - Huntley. Please let the loser go.

RB - Dobbins, Edwards. See comment above. Have to evaluate Mitchell this offseason. Will he and Hill be the guys?

WR - Beckham, Agholor, Duvernay. First two as good as gone. Duvernay is valuable in his role, would like him to return.

OL - Zeitler, Simpson. Age could catch up with Zeitler, Simpson is replaceable. Tackle needs a hard look this offseason. 

DL - Madubuike, Clowney. I think Madubuike priced himself out of here, reportedly turned down an extension this past offseason. Clowney proved me wrong. I wouldn't commit much but would have him back at the right price. 

LB - Queen, Harrison. Hardly knew Harrison. Bye. Probably any weakside LB is replaceable playing next to Roquan. Queen will go somewhere where he's the Mike and they'll learn real fast that isn't him. 

DBs - Ya-Sin, Darby- Maulet. Maulet was in impact player around the LOS, but all replaceable. 

 

I think the trenches need to be addressed early in the draft. O-line needs help. DL loses a big piece and depth is shallow. Big part of their success is the ability to rush with just four. RB, LB, and secondary in the middle rounds. Can't have enough of them. Late round QB flier. Honestly think Flowers, Bateman, Andrews, Likely, is enough receiving threats. Duv if they keep him around. Sign the next Agholor like they always do. 

 

Then, cross your fingers LJ stays healthy and Mahomes does not. 


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#59 mdrunning

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 03:44 PM

I think Madubuike comes back on the franchise tag if a deal can't be worked out otherwise. I agree that Queen is as good as gone. You can't pay two off-ball linebackers $20 million or more per annum.



#60 BaltBird 24

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 03:45 PM

I've got enough faith in EDC to know they'll have a talented roster. Very little concern there.

The regular season, as usual, will depend on if Lamar can stay healthy.




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