182 replies to this topic

[BSLChrisStoner]

I could argue that they are if Jacksonville doesnt make it. Cle isnt better than Buf, Mia, or KC. So the argument comes down to them vs Houston. Flacco is about to be exposed in a big way but I know people dont want to see that or believe it. 

 

I'd argue the biggest threats in the AFC to Baltimore are Buffalo and Cleveland...  but that's different than my objecting to Mackus saying Cleveland is clearly one one of the two worst. I can see them being lumped in the same tier, and I can even see liking some of the others better... but I can't see saying Cleveland is 'clearly' below.

 

Miami is a shell of themselves with their defensive (and offensive injuries). Plus we will see what Tua and a timing offense looks like in January if they have to go on the road and play in the wind (their offense has been drastically worse on the road all year, just with the opposing crowd noise impacting their pre snap reads and movement).  They also haven't shown they can beat good teams.

KC has the pedigree, and I was hanging on all year to that giving them respect... but their defense has come apart lately, they don't run the ball, the oline isn't good, and the WR's aren't going to all of a sudden start getting open and learn how to catch.  You start with Mahomes, and Reid, and their accomplishments... and it's not unreasonable to believe they could beat anyone in a given week, but I don't believe they are as good overall as Cleveland right now.

 

Buffalo has been winning games, but they actually haven't played all that great the last few weeks.  I think they are a better team if they feed Cook.  I expect they beat Miami tonight.

 

I don't think Cleveland is anything special.  4th QB of the year, injured backs, etc.  But the defense is above average (better at home, but still good overall). That travels. As mentioned by you and others, they've got the familiarity of playing the Ravens. No surprises for either. Flacco is turning the ball over a lot, but he's doing some of that by design. He's attacking down field, not just checking down. Their offense has gone from like 26th overall to something like 8th overall since he came on-board. Flacco isn't going to be wetting himself in any playoff atmosphere. And they're also playing with house money. They've got the disrespect card, and low expectations. 

 

I'm not sure I have this right, but thinking Jacksonville beats Tenn, wins the South... Cleveland beats Jacksonville, and comes here. Ravens should win that game, and I'll expect them to win that game. But it's not hard for me to envision that being a fight.

[cprenegade]

I would argue for Cleveland as the 4th best team in the AFC playoffs after Baltimore, Buffalo, and KC.  Miami is trash.  They are a paper tiger that got exposed by the Ravens last week.  They have a soft defense.  All they have is speed wideouts.  And they haven't been able to beat anyone of note outside of Miami.  Houston is a young team.  They will be one to watch in the future, but they aren't there yet.  They probably lose to the Colts if their back could catch a pass that hit him in the hands.   I don't know what to make of Jacksonville.  And Pittsburgh is still a very offensively challenged team.  

 

And I do think divisional games in the playoffs can often result in upsets.  Familiarity makes it much easier to prepare.  Cleveland has experienced what Lamar can do.  They know what has burned them and what they have had success with.  Out of division teams can see it on film, but have experienced it a lot less.  

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Cant wait til Flacco is exposed and we dont have to deal with this talk anymore.  But they def got a shot of beating Jack or Hou so it might not come til the divisional round. I think Im gonna end up betting the AFC South winner next week though. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

BTW I think Tenn beats Jacksonville today and Houston wins the South. Not sure what to think about the Buf -Mia game. Mia is a different team at home. I def like them at +3. 

[BSLChrisStoner]

Cant wait til Flacco is exposed and we dont have to deal with this talk anymore.  But they def got a shot of beating Jack or Hou so it might not come til the divisional round

What's going to be exposed? He is what he is.  
About to be 39.  Still has an arm.  Has trouble moving. 
He's throwing the ball down the field (YPA is high), and he has 8 picks in 5 games. 
You should be able to hit him in the pocket... you also know he's going to stand in there. 

He might be the Comeback POY... he's also a guy that started 8 games in '19, 5 in '20, 2 in '21, and 5 in '22... so the whole league left him for dead.  (Meaning hard to expose a guy that's been left for dead that long.)

He's not some savior, but he's got 15 career playoff games. 
There isn't an environment that's going to be too big for him.
If they lose, it might be because he gets hit a lot, and turns it over forcing things... it won't be because the lights turned on.

[BSLChrisStoner]

BTW I think Tenn beats Jacksonville today and Houston wins the South.

Hope you are right, I need Houston to win the South.... but won't matter for me unless Washington can pull the larger upset over Dallas. 
Freaking Eagles losing last week. Ridiculous.

[bmore_ken]

I think Lamar would have lit that defense up yesterday. Can't stress enough how much space the Ravens WR were running around with throughout the game, and Huntley WOULD NOT throw the ball. Dude had zero confidence in himself, no exaggeration.

Bring PIT back here for a playoff game, I'd sign up for that in a heartbeat...

Nor should he. I don't know how that guy is on an NFL roster. 

[85Knight]

I think Lamar would have lit that defense up yesterday. Can't stress enough how much space the Ravens WR were running around with throughout the game, and Huntley WOULD NOT throw the ball. Dude had zero confidence in himself, no exaggeration.

Bring PIT back here for a playoff game, I'd sign up for that in a heartbeat...

The Steelers fans want us in the playoffs as badly as we want them. Reading their forums they think they own the Ravens and even Lamar. I don't see it happening but bring it on. Beating them in the playoffs would get this bad taste out of my mouth after getting swept.

[jamesdean]

Cant wait til Flacco is exposed and we dont have to deal with this talk anymore.  But they def got a shot of beating Jack or Hou so it might not come til the divisional round. I think Im gonna end up betting the AFC South winner next week though. 

Agree 100% with you on Cleveland and Flacco.  He hasn't faced a serious pass rush yet and he'll fold like a cheap tent and in the process, throw a couple of picks.  It won't be close. 

[BSLChrisStoner]

Agree 100% with you on Cleveland and Flacco.  He hasn't faced a serious pass rush yet and he'll fold like a cheap tent and in the process, throw a couple of picks.  It won't be close. 

Jets, Jags, Bears, and Rams are all lower ranked pass rush teams... but Houston is 8th in sacks...  Flacco had 368 yards, and 3 td's there.

[You Play to Win the Game]

All this ruminating over who we want to play is really bad mojo IMO. We're the #1 seed. If we play like it, it won't matter. Teams should be more concerned about a path that doesn't bring them to The Bank. Anyone can beat anyone in the playoffs, the far more important thing is showing up and playing your best game. If the Ravens and Lamar do that, none of this nonsense matters. 

[mweb08]

Jets, Jags, Bears, and Rams are all lower ranked pass rush teams... but Houston is 8th in sacks...  Flacco had 368 yards, and 3 td's there.

 

To strengthen your point, the Bears have actually been getting a lot of sacks since acquiring Sweat (19 in their last 7 games vs 10 in their first 9 games). 

[You Play to Win the Game]

To strengthen your point, the Bears have actually been getting a lot of sacks since acquiring Sweat (19 in their last 7 games vs 10 in their first 9 games). 

Yep - he's been a game changer for that defense. It's still an awful trade in a lost year, when you could've just signed him in the off-season with all that cap space. But it looks a lot less terrible now given how he has helped transformed every layer of that defense. There's been some film study on the things he's doing on the line that is confusing offenses in a big way. So many things don't show up in the stats in football. He's a great player.

[mweb08]

I'm not a big Flacco believer but I do appreciate what he's doing and think that team is basically in the same tier with several teams after Baltimore (obviously far and away in their own tier) and Buffalo.

More specifically on Flacco, unlike what you'd expect from many vet QB's, he brings a lot of variance to a game. He could hit a bunch of big plays or roughly as likely, turn the ball over 3+ times (of course both could happen in the same game). So if there's a game where you get a high percentile Flacco game (this includes teams missing out on the turnover opportunities he likely will offer) then they will have a great chance to win considering their top notch defense (against anyone in the AFC besides Baltimore at least).

[BSLChrisStoner]

All this ruminating over who we want to play is really bad mojo IMO. We're the #1 seed. If we play like it, it won't matter. Teams should be more concerned about a path that doesn't bring them to The Bank. Anyone can beat anyone in the playoffs, the far more important thing is showing up and playing your best game. If the Ravens and Lamar do that, none of this nonsense matters. 

My general feeling is you play who you play, and it's more about how you play.
If the Ravens don't beat themselves, I think SF is the only team capable of beating them. 

(To clarify, meaning I think SF is the lone team where the Ravens can play their A game, and potentially still lose.)

[jamesdean]

Jets, Jags, Bears, and Rams are all lower ranked pass rush teams... but Houston is 8th in sacks...  Flacco had 368 yards, and 3 td's there.

Flacco could certainly prove me wrong but I just can't see it.  If the Ravens were able to cut off the back end against Miami, they'll do the same against Cleveland.  Joe will be left with underneath stuff and that's what the Ravens will hope for.  They'll get an early lead and ultimately let the dogs out as Flacco drops back to pass on 70% of the plays.  The honeymoon will be over in process.  I don't worry about Joe Flacco and I'm not especially worried about Josh Allen either, another turnover machine.  

[bmore_ken]

TBH I don't think anyone needs to be worried about Flacco when you consider the team's he's played and he still threw 8 picks. 

[Mackus]

TBH I don't think anyone needs to be worried about Flacco when you consider the team's he's played and he still threw 8 picks.

Joe is why people aren't worried about Cleveland. If they had a real starting caliber QB they'd be terrifying with their defense.

Joe gives them a shot that the other backups they ran out don't, but still not to the level of a current starter.

[cprenegade]

Well I think it's pretty well accepted that Joe Flacco and Cleveland aren't going to win any shoot outs.  For Cleveland to be successful, they need to play ball control, field position, and shut down defense.  

 

The thing that makes Cleveland so potentially dangerous is that their defense can play shut down and can turn over anyone 2-3 times in a game.  If they can do that, they can beat anyone in the field.  But there is very little margin of error.  They can't afford to get 10 points down.  If that happens, they are in trouble.  

[hallas]

Well I think it's pretty well accepted that Joe Flacco and Cleveland aren't going to win any shoot outs. For Cleveland to be successful, they need to play ball control, field position, and shut down defense.

The thing that makes Cleveland so potentially dangerous is that their defense can play shut down and can turn over anyone 2-3 times in a game. If they can do that, they can beat anyone in the field. But there is very little margin of error. They can't afford to get 10 points down. If that happens, they are in trouble.

Ehh, they've scored 30+ 3 out of 5 games. Flacco has had 3 passing TDs in each.

If anything because he's been playing feast or famine (TDs or ints) they're more likely to get into a shootout.