Photo

2024 Orioles General Talk


  • Please log in to reply
2007 replies to this topic

#1421 TwentyThirtyFive

TwentyThirtyFive

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,986 posts

Posted 13 April 2024 - 12:14 PM

And the rub is once they made the decision to call him up the owe it to him to give him real time to settle in and get comfortable. Starting a demotion train or even just demoting him once sucks. Feels like failure and could negative effects. Again, why it was easily the worst decision Elias has ever made. You were 2 days. 2 damn days from likely getting a 7th year. Beyond dumb. If he beats the 7th year by getting top 2 ROY good on him. These 2 or 3 damn games and a potential draft pick in the 30s nowhre near worth it

#1422 Slidemaster

Slidemaster

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,412 posts

Posted 13 April 2024 - 12:30 PM

And the rub is once they made the decision to call him up the owe it to him to give him real time to settle in and get comfortable. Starting a demotion train or even just demoting him once sucks. Feels like failure and could negative effects. Again, why it was easily the worst decision Elias has ever made. You were 2 days. 2 damn days from likely getting a 7th year. Beyond dumb. If he beats the 7th year by getting top 2 ROY good on him. These 2 or 3 damn games and a potential draft pick in the 30s nowhre near worth it


How did Grayson and Cowser handle demotion?

#1423 TwentyThirtyFive

TwentyThirtyFive

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,986 posts

Posted 13 April 2024 - 12:34 PM


How did Grayson and Cowser handle demotion?

So now we want him demoted. Is that what some are promoting already. Or that the decision to demote should be a casual call. Cowser was not very good once he went back to AAA last year btw. Demoting a player is not good obviously. No one else will ever win this argument. Ever. For 3 extra games it was a horrible decision. Its, wait for..... it not even debatable

#1424 You Play to Win the Game

You Play to Win the Game

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 60,712 posts
  • LocationMaryland

Posted 13 April 2024 - 01:19 PM

I wanted that 7th year so I’m down with using poor performance as a guise to accomplish that. But a 3 game sample is just nothing. You can’t be playing head games with a cornerstone guy. I don’t expect him to get sent back down, ever. But if he’s completely lost for a couple months, maybe they’d consider it.
  • Mackus and russsnyder like this

#1425 Slidemaster

Slidemaster

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,412 posts

Posted 13 April 2024 - 01:45 PM

So now we want him demoted. Is that what some are promoting already. Or that the decision to demote should be a casual call. Cowser was not very good once he went back to AAA last year btw. Demoting a player is not good obviously. No one else will ever win this argument. Ever. For 3 extra games it was a horrible decision. Its, wait for..... it not even debatable


I didn't say I wanted him demoted. I said him being demoted is a viable option.

#1426 TwentyThirtyFive

TwentyThirtyFive

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,986 posts

Posted 13 April 2024 - 02:19 PM


I wanted that 7th year so I’m down with using poor performance as a guise to accomplish that. But a 3 game sample is just nothing. You can’t be playing head games with a cornerstone guy. I don’t expect him to get sent back down, ever. But if he’s completely lost for a couple months, maybe they’d consider it.

Which is why they only had to wait 3 Fing days and then its clear sailing to let him figure it out up here. Totally agree you cant be jerking around top end prospects. Like the top prospect. Elite talents. Sure, a demotion is possible at some point but they rightfully have to let him sink or swim for a good while

#1427 Pedro Cerrano

Pedro Cerrano

    I Miss McNulty

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 35,858 posts
  • LocationEllicott City, MD

Posted 13 April 2024 - 02:30 PM

I think he saved GRods career too


Saved him too

There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

"Now OPS sucks.  Got it."

"Making his own olive brine is peak Mackus."

"I'm too hungover to watch a loss." - McNulty

@bopper33


#1428 TwentyThirtyFive

TwentyThirtyFive

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,986 posts

Posted 13 April 2024 - 02:43 PM


Saved him too

Was Rutsch gonna be another Wieters before you intervened. Cant remember. Bottom line here Cerrano is the prospect whisperer

#1429 Pedro Cerrano

Pedro Cerrano

    I Miss McNulty

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 35,858 posts
  • LocationEllicott City, MD

Posted 13 April 2024 - 03:10 PM

Was Rutsch gonna be another Wieters before you intervened. Cant remember. Bottom line here Cerrano is the prospect whisperer


I’m trying to get Baltimore a title. That’s all

There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

"Now OPS sucks.  Got it."

"Making his own olive brine is peak Mackus."

"I'm too hungover to watch a loss." - McNulty

@bopper33


#1430 Mashed Potatoes

Mashed Potatoes

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,038 posts

Posted 14 April 2024 - 05:08 AM

Damn, who could've possibly predicted heading into this season in which we're supposedly competing for a world series that we'd need more pitching.
@DaKittenz

#1431 SonicAttack

SonicAttack
  • Members
  • 403 posts

Posted 14 April 2024 - 07:03 AM

I know I have said this ad nauseum, and this is the final time I will say this, the O's FO needs to move some of the players that will not be part of the future, before the trade deadline, if possible, for pitching help.  I would inquire other teams' interest in Hays, Urias, Mateo, Santander, O'Hearn, Mullins, and even Stowers or Kjerstad if one of them, not both, can get a quality pitcher (I do prefer to keep Kjerstad over Stowers).  The FO doesn't need to move all of them, but if there is trade intertest in any of them for a quality pitching arm, then I would make that deal.  

I this believe will best serve the club now and in the future. Thanks for allowing my input.



#1432 weird-O

weird-O

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,291 posts
  • LocationI'm here from downtown, I'm here from Mitch and Murray.

Posted 14 April 2024 - 08:52 AM

How did Grayson and Cowser handle demotion?

Exactly. Anyone who thinks a demotion (if warranted) will wreck his psyche, doesn't understand sports. And I'm not just talking about pro sports. I mean any level of sports. If your little league coach tells you your not good enough to start, and all you do is grab some pine and accept that, then your coach is right. I'm guessing the universally ranked #1 prospect in all of baseball, will be better than that.  


Good news! I saw a dog today.


#1433 TwentyThirtyFive

TwentyThirtyFive

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,986 posts

Posted 14 April 2024 - 08:53 AM

Was listening to someone the other day. Like a national talking head and the topic was all these pitchers going down around the league. His rhetorical question was Why would anyone trade pitching right now? Anyone. In early April or even May. Sure, there is some deal you could offer that would be enough but the value will not be close to right. There arent really any sellers yet. Even if the A's have an arm or two youd want right now they have to find someone to cover all the innings they will have to pitch this season. The mistake and we have all called it out was not getting more pitching in the offseason. Yeah, it can be expensive. Kyle Gibson got 12 mil. Crazy. But guess what he takes the ball and throws innings. Im just using him as an example. Ideally you'd try to do better. Look at what the Dodgers did and I know they are a different breed. They had what looked like a set rotation and then went out and still brought in Paxton and one other guy.
  • russsnyder likes this

#1434 russsnyder

russsnyder

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,492 posts

Posted 14 April 2024 - 09:22 AM

Was listening to someone the other day. Like a national talking head and the topic was all these pitchers going down around the league. His rhetorical question was Why would anyone trade pitching right now? Anyone. In early April or even May. Sure, there is some deal you could offer that would be enough but the value will not be close to right. There arent really any sellers yet. Even if the A's have an arm or two youd want right now they have to find someone to cover all the innings they will have to pitch this season. The mistake and we have all called it out was not getting more pitching in the offseason. Yeah, it can be expensive. Kyle Gibson got 12 mil. Crazy. But guess what he takes the ball and throws innings. Im just using him as an example. Ideally you'd try to do better. Look at what the Dodgers did and I know they are a different breed. They had what looked like a set rotation and then went out and still brought in Paxton and one other guy.

Good post.

You're absolutely correct. Pitching is at a premium right now. Further, you are not going to get anything of real value with trade chips like Urias, Hays, and Mateo. You're better served hanging onto these guys and picking up guys for BP depth like Ramirez for" cash considerations". If Westburg or Henderson go on the IL, Urias and/or Mateo become that much more valuable to the Orioles.

The other thing is that people need to realize is that Means is getting close to being ready for the big leagues and that Bradish had a rehab start at Aberdeen pushed back because of rain. Hopefully, one or both of these can make it back to the rotation this season. I think there's a good chance they both make it back.

As you state, with everyone still in the race and pitching being at a premium, this is not the time to pursue starting pitchers.I prefer to sign a guy like Teheran as a bridge to Means or Bradish. However, I don't think they'll do that unless there's another injury.
<p>"F IT!, Let's hit." Ted Williams

#1435 russsnyder

russsnyder

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,492 posts

Posted 14 April 2024 - 09:31 AM

I checked and Holliday has had a total of 11 plate appearances. I can't believe anyone is talking about demoting him at this point.
  • BobPhelan and Mashed Potatoes like this
<p>"F IT!, Let's hit." Ted Williams

#1436 russsnyder

russsnyder

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,492 posts

Posted 14 April 2024 - 09:35 AM


Exactly. Anyone who thinks a demotion (if warranted) will wreck his psyche, doesn't understand sports. And I'm not just talking about pro sports. I mean any level of sports. If your little league coach tells you your not good enough to start, and all you do is grab some pine and accept that, then your coach is right. I'm guessing the universally ranked #1 prospect in all of baseball, will be better than that.


I think some context is relevant. Holliday is the #1 prospect in baseball. He was the # 1 overall draft pick. While baseball is a game of failure, I doubt that He has likely ever been benched or demoted in his entire life. While I doubt that he folds because of his pedigree, being demoted would definitely affect his psyche at least temporarily.
<p>"F IT!, Let's hit." Ted Williams

#1437 TwentyThirtyFive

TwentyThirtyFive

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,986 posts

Posted 14 April 2024 - 09:43 AM


I think some context is relevant. Holliday is the #1 prospect in baseball. He was the # 1 overall draft pick. While baseball is a game of failure, I doubt that He has likely ever been benched or demoted in his entire life. While I doubt that he folds because of his pedigree, being demoted would definitely affect his psyche at least temporarily.

Elias was on the broadcast yesterday and talked about the process. Why they initially sent him down, but also why once you call him up its because you feel he is ready and need to give him real time. Im paraphrasing but its been my point. Of course a demotion doesnt mean hes gonna fail longterm but it looks like failure in the short term. I mean it is failure in the short term. You dont want to get to the point where you have to send these uber prospects back
  • russsnyder likes this

#1438 Mackus

Mackus

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 61,414 posts

Posted 14 April 2024 - 10:00 AM

It's plausible they demote him in like six weeks if things are going poorly, but not after 3 games. I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that for performance reasons (I support it for contract reasons but that ship has sailed). If anyone is, that opinion can be safely ignored.

#1439 BobPhelan

BobPhelan

    OTV

  • Moderators
  • 14,780 posts
  • LocationBel Air, MD

Posted 14 April 2024 - 10:08 AM

Bradish will pitch in Bowie next week. No setbacks, velocity is normal. LFG.
  • makoman likes this

#1440 TwentyThirtyFive

TwentyThirtyFive

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,986 posts

Posted 14 April 2024 - 10:10 AM


It's plausible they demote him in like six weeks if things are going poorly, but not after 3 games. I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that for performance reasons (I support it for contract reasons but that ship has sailed). If anyone is, that opinion can be safely ignored.

I just find it hilarious that people who were so in favor of either starting him up here from the jump or were complainimg 3 games in how we were doing a diservice to the '24 team by not rostering team are now already defending a demotion. They may not be calling for a demotion right now but they are laying the groundwork for it.


I was the biggest advocate for holding him down for service time manipulation but now that we havent done that Im all in the boat on he has to be given a long stretch of time to establish himself. 3 to 4 weeks at minimum and those 3 or 4 weeks would have to be quite bad. If hes showing signs but doesnt quite have the stats you stay with him
  • BobPhelan likes this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


Our Sponsors


 width=