440 replies to this topic

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Legit commitmemt like signing Rodon or Tallion, or Verlander? How much better would we be with those guys.


IMO the best approach we can take is to be in the trade market for guys 1 or 2 years from FA. You have to have the trade capital to make it happen. The Os do. It takes so much risk off not having to give out the big FA contract you often regret. You just let them walk. The Os cant afford to miss on a Rodon like contract. They cant. Thats what people need to realize. When there were at least rumbles we were talking to Rodon I was all for signing him. Aint my money. But we see why its so risky for a franchise like BMore vs a NY or LA. And Ill be the first to say we should be shopping in that next tier down market. The Bassitt market. The Tallion market. The Jose Abreu market. Anything thats a 3 or 4 year commitmemt we can do. But because we struck out in that market over one offseason does not make me believe that will be the case going forward. Most around here are already convinced we wont shop there.

[Mackus]

How will buying vs selling at the deadline be anything but prioritizing now vs the future.

I said if they buy this deadline that would be prioritizing the present. That'd be the first action in that manner.

[BaltBird 24]

I figured Verlander, Rodon (though I didn't like his health history), deGrom (also hated his health history) were very unlikely due to contract demands.

I would've been cool with Evoladi and advocated for his signing.

Gibson would've been fine had he been our 2nd best SP addition. I actually liked the Irvin trade, would like to see him get another look.

[Mike B]

Elias isn't and has never been the problem. As long as the Angelos family has the controlling financial stake in the team, they're going to squeeze out every penny that they can and make as few long term commitments as possible.

 

So while I am doing everything I can to enjoy the day to day of this ballclub, I can't escape the nagging feeling that this window is fleeting because ownership will not give Elias the financial flexibility to (a) proactively extend our young talent or (b) make meaningful moves to supplement the young core.

 

Look, it's great that Gibson is thriving, the Frazier is having a solid bounce back year and that McCann is better than Chirinos. And yes, the club is currently in 2nd place in the East and has the 3rd best record in baseball but just imagine if we made any kind of legitimate financial commitment to improve the roster?

 

The optimist in me says perhaps it was a "wait and see" approach. See what kind of start the club got off to and, if the circumstances are right and since we have payroll flexibility, make some meaningful in-season additions. The pessimist in me says there's no chance that ownership would allow this and the best we can hope for is a Bud Norris type starter.

This is a good post and I think you are right about the real issue being the same problem that has existed for 30 years, Angelos ownership.  That said, the issue with sitting out the latest off season is the cost of being buyers at the deadline is going to be some of the top prospects that we have been bragging on for the last 3 or 4 years.

I think we will see a trade or two aimed at making the Orioles better at the deadline but I do not see them bringing in a top talent, especially one that is accompanied by a big contract.

[bmore_ken]

Elias isn't and has never been the problem. As long as the Angelos family has the controlling financial stake in the team, they're going to squeeze out every penny that they can and make as few long term commitments as possible.

 

So while I am doing everything I can to enjoy the day to day of this ballclub, I can't escape the nagging feeling that this window is fleeting because ownership will not give Elias the financial flexibility to (a) proactively extend our young talent or (b) make meaningful moves to supplement the young core.

 

Look, it's great that Gibson is thriving, the Frazier is having a solid bounce back year and that McCann is better than Chirinos. And yes, the club is currently in 2nd place in the East and has the 3rd best record in baseball but just imagine if we made any kind of legitimate financial commitment to improve the roster?

 

The optimist in me says perhaps it was a "wait and see" approach. See what kind of start the club got off to and, if the circumstances are right and since we have payroll flexibility, make some meaningful in-season additions. The pessimist in me says there's no chance that ownership would allow this and the best we can hope for is a Bud Norris type starter.

How dare you be pessimistic. That's my job 

[Mike in STL]

He and others really believe its luck. That this is all a fluke. And by this I mean the window. The core. I said it in the winter. Supplementing through FA is great but either way this core is here and they will have to be reckoned with for years. Im sure if they stall a bit and only win 85 games this year we will have all the haters saying I told you so. Even though its still a step forward and its outperforming most preseason expectations. This train will not be stopped. They will be good for awhile. How good?? Now that is indeed a question that needs to be answered by ownership and management going forward. But people have already made up their minds there too after one offseason. We are either the A's and will sell off guys 1 or 2 years out from FA(didnt happen with Santander btw) or never sign a multi year FA or never trade for an impact player.

85 wins is not good enough after last season. 85 wins is good enough for the crap offseason and low payroll they decided to have. But that’s not the goal for me.

[Mike in STL]

I don’t think they are anywhere near having a 10-year window of winning unless there is some commitment to most of those ten years, starting with Adley.

As far as the future, it’s literally a one year at a time discussion as long as they recycle 1-year deals for 1-year deals. When they operate any differently, I’ll change my tune.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Ok O's ownership sucks. But I am tired of hearing how everything is their fault.  

 

Its was just a handful of years ago the O's payroll was around $160M. This year the O's payroll is south of $70M. I know things have changed a bit with the MASN mess but I am not convinced one bit that the O's under the current ownership can't have a payroll over $100M.

[Mackus]

I don't think anybody doubts that they can have a $100M+ payroll. It's not a question of ability. It's a question of will.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I don’t think they are anywhere near having a 10-year window of winning unless there is some commitment to most of those ten years, starting with Adley.

As far as the future, it’s literally a one year at a time discussion as long as they recycle 1-year deals for 1-year deals. When they operate any differently, I’ll change my tune.

Winning what? People are way to into this playoffs being a crapshoot myth. Some years it is, most of the time we know which 2-3 teams have legit WS aspirations. I’m over making the playoffs as a goal. It’s a step but not the end destination.

[Mike in STL]

Winning what? People are way to into this playoffs being a crapshoot myth. Some years it is, most of the time we know which 2-3 teams have legit AS aspirations. I’m over making the playoffs as a goal. It’s a step but not the end destination.

Some people think it’s like Maryland football and being .500 is reason for a parade.

I didn’t sit though all those 100+ loss seasons to hang my hat on winning 83-85 games when no one thought we would because they did jack in the offseason.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

As I said, no matter the end result this year, the train isnt stopping. Or slowing down. And for the record I still am saying 90+ wins this year but obviously 85 isnt that far from 90

[glenn__davis]

Winning what? People are way to into this playoffs being a crapshoot myth. Some years it is, most of the time we know which 2-3 teams have legit WS aspirations. I’m over making the playoffs as a goal. It’s a step but not the end destination.

 

The playoffs are 100% a crapshoot.  OK, 99%.

 

https://blogs.fangra...ll-a-crapshoot/

[CantonJester]

Anybody who thinks anything else is delusional and drinking too much orange Kool Aid. Elias flew to Texas and made those comments as damage control to the team and the fans after throwing in the towel on the season. Liftoff does not mean stand pat and just be competitive. He clearly stated that they were ready to supplement the team and compete in the AL east. We all know what it takes to do that as far as free agent pickups and trades go. So far liftoff has been underwhelming so let's see what happens at this trade deadline.

 

Delusional is apropos for this mindset. 

[BobPhelan]

Where is Robert. I need some damn backup for once around here. Throw your hat in the ring.

 

You gotta catch me on the right day and reading the board at the right time for me to get invested in an argument when I know for a fact nothing I say will change anyone's mind. That said my wife is three weeks away from giving birth so that time may be coming soon lol.

[Mackus]

The playoffs are 100% a crapshoot.  OK, 99%.

 

https://blogs.fangra...ll-a-crapshoot/

 

I think Ricker is saying to try and build the team with the 60% chance in a series instead of the one with the 40% chance.  Not saying that the 40% chance team doesn't have that 40% chance of winning.  Everyone does indeed have a shot once you're in, but it'd be nice to have an even better shot than you get from simply having the entry ticket, which I do think is possible and the article you linked also supports.

[dude]

Couple thoughts on doing something early.  Actions speak louder than words.  If you want to change a narrative, go do something.  We don't have to wait to the deadline. If you're willing to take some money to accomplish something, then you did.  Actions. All we have is words so far.  Also....Orioles are playing well but could use a bat...2B is certainly an option, but we aren't getting much out of DH outside of starter rotation.

 

The lead post was probably tldr for Wile E. Coyote to read, but for some of the discussion that has emerged, it's actually one of the points of doing something meaningful.  Until you prove you can do something, you haven't done anything.  That doesn't mean you can't win (Internal only) but if you want to respond to those that suggest you can't do anything, the answer is to do something.

 

Conditions constantly change any we don't know.  O'Hearn has been good.  Lester had an exciting debut.  Hicks has been anything you could have hoped for.  That is good.  There's more track record there for mirage than emerge, but you can ride it until it's not there.

 

Starting Pitching.  Innings and performance feel like a weakness that creates exposure.  SP has bounced back this side of GRod and Irvin.  Irvin deserves more rope and hopefully gets it together, but that's probably 4-5 starts before you need to consider something.

 

One of the teams I'd watch is the Cards.  They've struggled terribly this year (WileE doesn't think it can happen in Baltimore) and while the good news for them is basically everyone in the NL is in it, the bad news is that everyone in the NL is in it too.

 

Flaherty (remember the Manny discussions?) is just another example of the volatility of young pitcher is in the final year of team control (5.4M) and while his ERA is great (4.55) a lot of that is one 10 run game.  He's been pretty good in general.  Lefty Jordan Montgomery is also in the final year of his control (10M) in STL.  Neither is great, but they could be pretty stable in terms of innings and performance.

 

Irvin probably needs more opportunity and Bradish has looked good since a rough start.  I wouldn't trade Bradish for Flaherty, but if Irvin doesn't get it together, would I trade Bradish and Irvin for Flaherty and Montgomery?

 

Not a give up move for the Cards (Bradish and Irvin can still pitch) but they do trade out some current performance on a struggling team for some years of control for upcoming years. Orioles buy a few more innings for the bullpen and maybe some performance.

-----------------------

 

Bullpen.  Still like the Chapman and Clarke trade.  Improve the bullpen.  Chapman's stuff is back to elite levels at 35, but his knee is 'barking' so KC may be inclined to restructure given an opportunity. 

[Mackus]

Come on, dude. Why do you so consistently self-sabotage your good ideas with some non-critical portion that you know everyone is gonna hate?

Just trade for Montgomery and/or Flaherty if you want them. Don't give away a possibly key piece with upside in Bradish to do it. Give away a couple third tier prospects which is all it should take for a couple months of above average SP. And if it takes a lot more, look elsewhere.

[glenn__davis]

I think Ricker is saying to try and build the team with the 60% chance in a series instead of the one with the 40% chance. Not saying that the 40% chance team doesn't have that 40% chance of winning. Everyone does indeed have a shot once you're in, but it'd be nice to have an even better shot than you get from simply having the entry ticket, which I do think is possible and the article you linked also supports.

Sure, you should still stack your odds as much as you can, but ultimately all teams that get in have pretty similar chances of winning.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Lol at trading 5 years of Bradish control for 2 impending FAs who arent definitively better than him. Maybe worse