440 replies to this topic

[bmore_ken]

The team is winning and fighting for the divisional lead. You can define "liftoff" any way you want but relative to two years ago, I don't know how you can say they aren't already in that mode.

Personally I never knew what liftoff was. I'm just glad they're playing well with what they have. 

[Mackus]

The comment had nothing to do with FA spending. It was about the roster being in a place to start competing in the division.

 

Nonsense.  The comment was made directly in response to selling off.  It was absolutely meant to placate fans with the (in retrospect clearly false) promise that they'd be making meaningful improvements to the roster moving forward.  

[Mike B]

Personally I never knew what liftoff was. I'm just glad they're playing well with what they have. 

I think liftoff was just another phrase Elias uses, when he is doing an interview but wants to talk a lot to say as little as possible.

It absolutely was a way to quiet the fan base, who was understandably pissed that Elias and the Orioles waived the white flag on the season.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Nonsense. The comment was made directly in response to selling off. It was absolutely meant to placate fans with the (in retrospect clearly false) promise that they'd be making meaningful improvements to the roster moving forward.

No it’s us doing the spinning, not the team owned website that is MASN.

[Mike in STL]

The team is winning and fighting for the divisional lead. You can define "liftoff" any way you want but relative to two years ago, I don't know how you can say they aren't already in that mode.

They are in that mode by sheer luck. There are a few other teams that have decent homegrown talent and supplement that with castoffs on 1-year deals praying for a rebound, and they are struggling. Granted teams out there who spent $200M+ could also be doing better.

The Orioles have shite ownership, a shite in game manager, shite payroll, but a nerd cave that seems to have its shite together. Most teams in this situation their record would be…okay, not great.

Are they really going to guess right on guys like Lyles, Gibson, Frazier, every single year? Or are they going to one day supplement the roster with real talent? Like Texas for example.

They going have these short windows of winning since there is no interest in extending this home grown talent, and you can’t hit on every cheap has been.

[glenn__davis]

They are in that mode by sheer luck. 

 

Don't think that's really a fair statement.

 

Elias said last year - rather unnecessarily I thought at the time - that the team was soon going to start a decade-long window of being competitive.  He didn't need to say that but he did - but if you're going to say that it better work out or you're going to look really foolish.  

 

For a lot of people on this board the team may not have been built the way they wanted them to be.  I think some of the criticism is over the top but to each their own - but to say they've just been lucky - nah.  They've developed players well, acquired players well, etc.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Nonsense. The comment was made directly in response to selling off. It was absolutely meant to placate fans with the (in retrospect clearly false) promise that they'd be making meaningful improvements to the roster moving forward.

Sure sure. Ill say again, BMore fans are miserable. Theyll linger on stupid shit while the team has the 3rd best record in baseball and a future as bright as the sun.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Don't think that's really a fair statement.

Elias said last year - rather unnecessarily I thought at the time - that the team was soon going to start a decade-long window of being competitive. He didn't need to say that but he did - but if you're going to say that it better work out or you're going to look really foolish.

For a lot of people on this board the team may not have been built the way they wanted them to be. I think some of the criticism is over the top but to each their own - but to say they've just been lucky - nah. They've developed players well, acquired players well, etc.

He and others really believe its luck. That this is all a fluke. And by this I mean the window. The core. I said it in the winter. Supplementing through FA is great but either way this core is here and they will have to be reckoned with for years. Im sure if they stall a bit and only win 85 games this year we will have all the haters saying I told you so. Even though its still a step forward and its outperforming most preseason expectations. This train will not be stopped. They will be good for awhile. How good?? Now that is indeed a question that needs to be answered by ownership and management going forward. But people have already made up their minds there too after one offseason. We are either the A's and will sell off guys 1 or 2 years out from FA(didnt happen with Santander btw) or never sign a multi year FA or never trade for an impact player.

[85Knight]

Nonsense. The comment was made directly in response to selling off. It was absolutely meant to placate fans with the (in retrospect clearly false) promise that they'd be making meaningful improvements to the roster moving forward.

Anybody who thinks anything else is delusional and drinking too much orange Kool Aid. Elias flew to Texas and made those comments as damage control to the team and the fans after throwing in the towel on the season. Liftoff does not mean stand pat and just be competitive. He clearly stated that they were ready to supplement the team and compete in the AL east. We all know what it takes to do that as far as free agent pickups and trades go. So far liftoff has been underwhelming so let's see what happens at this trade deadline.

[jamesdean]

They are in that mode by sheer luck. There are a few other teams that have decent homegrown talent and supplement that with castoffs on 1-year deals praying for a rebound, and they are struggling. Granted teams out there who spent $200M+ could also be doing better.

The Orioles have shite ownership, a shite in game manager, shite payroll, but a nerd cave that seems to have its shite together. Most teams in this situation their record would be…okay, not great.

Are they really going to guess right on guys like Lyles, Gibson, Frazier, every single year? Or are they going to one day supplement the roster with real talent? Like Texas for example.

They going have these short windows of winning since there is no interest in extending this home grown talent, and you can’t hit on every cheap has been.

Well, I guess only time will tell if you were right about your opinion.  In fairness to the organization, I don't think it's sheer luck that they have the record they do.  They're playing competitive baseball, have some talented, young players who should continue to only get better and a very good back end bullpen.  Defensively, they've improved too after that rough start.  And I know there's a lot of Hyde haters on here but I think he's done a good job building the team chemistry and having the players come to the park ready to compete. They don't give up on games when they get behind and are fighters.  Are they going to win the World Series this year?  Probably not but barring a complete collapse, they'll make the post season and like the Ravens and the NFL, you have to get to the dance first to have any shot at the ring.  I'm not a huge fan of 2023 baseball but I have enjoyed most of the games the Orioles have played so far.  But I hear what you're saying and there's plenty of people on here who agree with you.  Like I said, we'll see how it plays out but for me, I trust Elias for the most part.  

[TwentyThirtyFive]

And he said exactly in that quote how they were going to do it. He mentioned scouting,coaching, player development and the limited payroll expectations. Pull the parts of it you want to pull. The overall theme was obviously that they had arrived. He stuck his sword in the ground that day and and proclaimed they had arrived. He literally said there wasnt a good shot at making the playoffs last year so yeah he was looking forward to '23 and beyond. Again, talked about a 10 year window. So far the results back him up. By the way not anything he had ever done to that point. Had always been honest about rebuilding. Was honest in the quotes last Aug that the team had exceeded expectations in '22. So yeah he was saying the switch had been flipped but thats on yall thinking the payroll was gonna fly past 100+ mil in one offseason.

[Mackus]

I really don't care what he says.  Typically I enjoy listening to him talk mechanics, but he gets very condescending when doing PR.  Regardless of any comments, the front office inaction this offseason was unacceptable. Whether they were completely transparent and told us ahead of time that they weren't gonna do anything or if they promised the moon and failed to deliver for whatever reasons, the end result is the same.  Nobody above the field cares all that much about this year's team.  They'll happily take whatever wins they can get, I no longer think they'd prefer more losses, but winning in the future remains the priority over winning now as far as committing any resources goes.  Until they do even just one thing differently, that conclusion remains.  If they trade some prospects for real help this deadline, that'd be a start.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Keep lingering on the past. If youre right that its about the future and not now then logic tells me they will be selling. So we will see. If it was about the future and not '23 this offseason Santanders value was never higher off a career year and 2 team controlled years. Why wasnt he moved. It has to add up

[Mackus]

Keep lingering on the past. If youre right that its about the future and not now then logic tells me they willbe selling then. So we will see wont we. If it was about the future and not '23 thos offseason Santanders value was never higher ff a career year and 2 team controlled years. Why wasnt he moved. It has to add up

 

You're saying that because they didn't sell every last thing on the walls then my point that they aren't yet prioritizing the present over the future falls apart?

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Oh and you can not give a shit about this or think its some ploy or not. Dude is out in the stands in multiple cities watching his team compete. Interacting every day. Apparently telling Hyde every move he has to make every day. Sure seems like a guy who still doesnt care about winning now.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

You're saying that because they didn't sell every last thing on the walls then my point that they aren't yet prioritizing the present over the future falls apart?

How will buying vs selling at the deadline be anything but prioritizing now vs the future.

[85Knight]

We can only continue to have one of the lowest payrolls in the game and an overstocked minor league system for so long. This trade deadline will tell us everything we need to know about this organization's commitment to really trying to win it all. This trade deadline is my deadline for future expectations.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

We can only continue to have one of the lowest payrolls in the game and an overstocked minor league system for so long. This trade deadline will tell us everything we need to know about this organization's commitment to really trying to win it all. This trade deadline is my deadline for future expectations.

Deadline in what way? Theyll compete and win over the next 3 or 4 years if they dont sign a single FA or make a single trade thats thought of as buying. How bout that for a claim. The thing is it obvious they will sign FAs and they will make trades to improve the ML roster. But Ill make that claim because Im that confident in the talent they have at the upper levels of the organization. From the players to the batting and pitching coaches and the scouting. You go under the hood and you realize how many things they do right that leads to success

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Where is Robert. I need some damn backup for once around here. Throw your hat in the ring. 😉

[PrimeTime]

Elias isn't and has never been the problem. As long as the Angelos family has the controlling financial stake in the team, they're going to squeeze out every penny that they can and make as few long term commitments as possible.

 

So while I am doing everything I can to enjoy the day to day of this ballclub, I can't escape the nagging feeling that this window is fleeting because ownership will not give Elias the financial flexibility to (a) proactively extend our young talent or (b) make meaningful moves to supplement the young core.

 

Look, it's great that Gibson is thriving, the Frazier is having a solid bounce back year and that McCann is better than Chirinos. And yes, the club is currently in 2nd place in the East and has the 3rd best record in baseball but just imagine if we made any kind of legitimate financial commitment to improve the roster?

 

The optimist in me says perhaps it was a "wait and see" approach. See what kind of start the club got off to and, if the circumstances are right and since we have payroll flexibility, make some meaningful in-season additions. The pessimist in me says there's no chance that ownership would allow this and the best we can hope for is a Bud Norris type starter.