182 replies to this topic

[TwentyThirtyFive]

No, it certainly is not.

I think Hyde makes all decisions based on pre-discussed strategic imperatives from the front office. I wouldn't be surprised if there is even a formal method for relaying matchup type information, such as having a chart that says which hitters should be used against opposing pitchers. Or it could be more informal.

Every choice is his own, but everything he does is based on input and training from the front office on how to approach such decisions.

Your second paragraph is mostly ridiculous. Again, there is obviously data and info that is provided. How he uses it is his decision. Like every other manager in baseball. Like every other manager for years and years. If he is a slave to certain data points thats by his choice. Which you say at the end but its not really what you think. You think hes a puppet

[makoman]

Hes not firing Hyde right now. Nor is he going to step on his toes. This goes exactly to my point. Thry arent as hands on in game as people make it seem. I hate Hydes BP managament and if I was in Elias's role right now what could I really be expected to do or say to him. Just start blasting him to his face for starting fires that the guys have put out successfully to this point on a team 10 games over .500? Not realistic. And when I say blasting him to his face I dont mean literally telling him he sucks. Even subtlety isnt gonna go over very well.


To me thats like if Hyde were to take away the closers job from Bautista right now. Or pull him into the office and suggest he do better. Its not realistic. We all see Bautista is struggling but to this point he hasnt blown a save since Boston.

Hyde isn't a Harbaugh or Buck who has pull with ownership and is on equal footing as the GM. Elias could absolutely tell him ways that he thinks would improve in game management, it's crazy IMO to suggest otherwise. "Analytically it's not advantageous to keep having relievers sit for a half inning just to get pulled after one batter." "As an org we don't necessarily believe in the save rule, it doesn't need to be religiously followed." Of course Elias could say stuff like that.

[Mackus]

Your second paragraph is mostly ridiculous. Again, there is obviously data and info that is provided. How he uses it is his decision. Like every other manager in baseball. Like every other manager for years and years. If he is a slave to certain data points thats by his choice. Which you say at the end but its not really what you think. You think hes a puppet

 

I think he's being judged by the front office on how well he implement's the front office's plan.  Not on the results of those choices.

 

That's the decision-making part of things. The personality management and motivational portion is another aspect of the job, and that's more on Hyde himself than on him implementing a plan from above.

[Mackus]

Again, when the shift was a thing they were shifting not just based on the batter, but based on the pitcher they were facing and even the count that they were in.  They certainly weren't just shifting whenever Hyde got a gut feeling that the next batted ball would be pulled, it was all pre-decided.  If they are that nuanced in something like the shift, it seems pretty wild to think that they aren't equally as detailed when it comes to pinch hitting or bullpen maneuvering.  Those decisions are equally as ripe for pre-planning.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Hyde isn't a Harbaugh or Buck who has pull with ownership and is on equal footing as the GM. Elias could absolutely tell him ways that he thinks would improve in game management, it's crazy IMO to suggest otherwise. "Analytically it's not advantageous to keep having relievers sit for a half inning just to get pulled after one batter." "As an org we don't necessarily believe in the save rule, it doesn't need to be religiously followed." Of course Elias could say stuff like that.

Maybe but its a fine line not stepping on toes and on a mans pride. Especially when the results are there for now. To suggest that because Elias hasnt suggested any BP or managaing tips means he is fully in line with and approves of the managing is equally as crazy an assumption.

[mweb08]

Absolutely nobody thinks Elias or anyone in the front office is phoning down in-game decisions. That's an unfair strawman argument.

Yes, of course.

[makoman]

Maybe but its a fine line not stepping on toes and on a mans pride. Especially when the results are there for now. To suggest that if he hasnt suggested any "BP or managaing tips" means he is fully in line with and approves of the managing is equally as crazy an assumption.

If Hyde is as obviously terrible as you think then why would Elias fear stepping on toes? The guy has a .407 career winning percentage, so the results might be there right now, but maybe it's mostly the players.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

If Hyde is as obviously terrible as you think then why would Elias fear stepping on toes? The guy has a .407 career winning percentage, so the results might be there right now, but maybe it's mostly the players.

I mean its clear why. Again, its also clear why Hyde himself isnt gonna go lower Bautista's leverage spots right now even though its obvious he is struggling

[makoman]

Maybe but its a fine line not stepping on toes and on a mans pride. Especially when the results are there for now. To suggest that because Elias hasnt suggested any BP or managaing tips means he is fully in line with and approves of the managing is equally as crazy an assumption.

The GM is in charge of the organizational approach. It's not "managing tips" to say "hey, what you're doing isn't in line with the approach we want."

[TwentyThirtyFive]

And BP useage in particular is a managers job. There is no big organizational approach to BP useage. Certainly not in the way Im complaining about Hyde. Getting guys up. Sitting them on the bench between innings only to send them back out while someone else is warming only to pull them after 1 batter reaches. I know there is now this thought that the manager doesnt really matter and doesnt do much in game. That essentially anyone working on a MLB coaching staff right now could do equal jobs managing. I think thats a huge load of shit.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Its also hilarious you were just about done with Hyde last night. Now we in here deflecting, if not outright defending, his indefensible managing

[Mackus]

Certainly not in the way Im complaining about Hyde. Getting guys up. Sitting them on the bench between innings only to send them back out while someone else is warming only to pull them after 1 batter reaches.

 

Agree with this part.  I think Hyde has dictates about who should be used in easily predictable situations (which frankly are most situations in baseball game), to try and optimize things.  But how he gets to those points and forecasting when a guy will be needed is on him.  Getting guys ready in time to be used, and avoiding guys warming multiple times, is his role.

[makoman]

Its also hilarious you were just about done with Hyde last night. Now we in here deflecting, if not outright defending, his indefensible managing

Not defending Hyde and I'd be cool if he was fired today, but keep laughing. 

 

It's hilarious that you think Elias is just sitting there as mad as you are but he can't do anything about it because Hyde is untouchable and his feelings might get hurt.

[ivanbalt]

Third best record in MLB and people are this upset about Hyde?

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I have no idea if Elias is happy or not with Hyde. Its ultimately his responsibility to find a better manager. All Ive said is its not realistic to think he will fire him or ruffle feathers right now. I dont give a crap what our record is at the end of the year if Hyde doesnt improve his managing and Elias doesnt fire him Ill be pissed at Elias.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Agree with this part. I think Hyde has dictates about who should be used in easily predictable situations (which frankly are most situations in baseball game), to try and optimize things. But how he gets to those points and forecasting when a guy will be needed is on him. Getting guys ready in time to be used, and avoiding guys warming multiple times, is his role.

This is all Im saying. When I say Hyde is provided info and data and expected to matchup in obvious spots yeah we dont disagree at all. But I think this has been prevelant since the 90s at least. Managers dont fly by the seat of their pants anymore. Or as much as they used to but there are still feel things that cant be quantified and have a real impact. Hyde does a poor job at those things.

[BobPhelan]

Hyde has his issues but seems clear to me that the players love him and he motivates the clubhouse in some way.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Hyde has his issues but seems clear to me that the players love him and he motivates the clubhouse in some way.

Lets talk when they hit a slump. A real slump. Maybe youre right. Wont overcome atrocious game management long term.

[jamesdean]

Bottom line is he's not going anywhere this year, short of a major collapse. So for all of you who are being tormented by his managerial skills, you might want to pace yourself. Its only May 10th.

[dude]

Your second paragraph is mostly ridiculous. Again, there is obviously data and info that is provided. How he uses it is his decision. Like every other manager in baseball. Like every other manager for years and years. If he is a slave to certain data points thats by his choice. Which you say at the end but its not really what you think. You think hes a puppet

 

It's hard to know where to jump in on this stuff....but you simply aren't paying attention to what's been happening across MLB for years now.  Teams go back and forth on some of the approach (swing too far one way then swing back).

 

Newer managers are more hybrid in that they accept the jobs with the clear understanding of their accountability to the Data department.