182 replies to this topic

[Pedro Cerrano]

Fun game to be at! Too bad I didn't share the experience with that many people though.

Update your record at games in the thread!

[mdrunning]

It's a win and that's important.  Not making any wins easy.

 

Felix, you have to throw strike one.

I don't think I've had less confidence in a guy with an ERA under 2.00 than I do right now with Bautista. 

 

Did he go 0-1 on any hitter tonight? I don't believe he did but I could be wrong.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Its everything with Felix right now. Velo down a tick or two. Control not there on any pitch and just no feel at all for splitty. He floats one and spikes the next. You can see the confidence is gone too. He doesnt really believe. And teams will take off on him in 1 run games once they get on. 2+ runs down you gotta be more sure. You cant afford to get thrown out. Pretty sure he hasnt started an inning 1 run down in a long time. Hes had leash and used every bit of it

[mdrunning]

Cano and Felix not available tomorrow.

Cano only threw 18 pitches tonight. He could be available to close tomorrow if needed.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Cano only threw 18 pitches tonight. He could be available to close tomorrow if needed.

Kremer is on the mound. If we are in position to have any high lev innings to be pitched late its a plus

[mweb08]

Lol. I mean Im there on the FO being in on lineup construction, platoons, pregame stuff. I dont think for a sec they have much in game influence. There is game flow. How.can you dictate much when you dont know whats gonna happen

Well in this pregame stuff they almost assuredly have discussions focused on the state of the bullpen. Those discussions should include availability on a given night, the roles of each guy, and a run through of possible scenarios.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

This is simply an excuse for Hyde and looking to throw shade at Elias. Its quite clearly Hydes job. Hyde probably would be pissed at the people who think hes that much of a puppet

[mweb08]

This is simply an excuse for Hyde and looking to throw shade at Elias. Its quite clearly Hydes job. Hyde probably would be pissed at the people who think hes that much of a puppet

I'm not saying he's a total puppet, but Elias almost certainly has a lot of influence. That's also fine by me.

I'm actually not even throwing shade at anyone either. I don't bash Hyde's decisions and managing in general all the time. That's you and probably for the inverse of what you accuse me of (you'd rather put as much blame on Hyde as possible rather than your boy).

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Hyde deserves the blame for in game decisions. Elias will get his for non in game stuff. Pretty damn black and white here

[TwentyThirtyFive]

And Hyde deserves all the blame he gets for his managing. We are seeing more and more people coming around to just how much he mismanages games. In particular the BP.

[mweb08]

Hyde deserves the blame for in game decisions. Elias will get his for non in game stuff. Pretty damn black and white here

Elias is Hyde's boss so if he doesn't like in game decision making he should do something about it. Based on what we've heard, I think he's rather influential in that regard though, which is fine by me.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Simple question. If the GM is running the daily stuff then why do you even need a manager? The GM can just phone down to some flunky and tell them what to do. 

 

I seriously doubt that Elias is dealing at all with the in game stuff. I suspect his only real influence is on the roster manipulations.

[makoman]

Elias isn't on the phone with the dugout all game calling in who to pitch, but I'd be shocked if they don't talk close to daily about strategy, what they did, what was good/bad, etc.

 

Hyde is responsible for the in game stuff and if he makes mistakes gets the bulk of the blame for that. But Elias is responsible for Hyde, so if certain things happen over and over Elias is implicitly giving his approval. It would just take one discussion--"I don't think we should take Ced out of leadoff vs lefties all the time," or "I think the approach to the bullpen should shift a bit..." and it would change. That is, it would change if Elias disagreed as strongly as 2035 does. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Simple question. If the GM is running the daily stuff then why do you even need a manager? The GM can just phone down to some flunky and tell them what to do.

I seriously doubt that Elias is dealing at all with the in game stuff. I suspect his only real influence is on the roster manipulations.

Its ridiculous to think otherwise. Is the team providing info and data to prepare Hyde for his duties? Of course. So does every other team. Been happening for years upon years even if some teams can and do provide more of that data. There is one man pulling the trigger on in game decisions. Its black and white here. Youd have to explain in pretty good detail how you think the FO has much influence over BP management other than providing data pregame. The silliness people go through to defend a piss poor manager

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Moreover, if there is no mandate that Hyde has to pitch a particular guy against a particular batter( there def is no mandate like that) its on Hyde for being that robotic and having no feel if he blindly goes with every single data point spit out by a computer.



The bigger problem with Hyde is he consistently will pull guys in middle of innings. Have a guy go sit on a bench in the dugout and get cold and then bring them back out only to pull them once they give up 1 baserunner. I mean sometimes that can happen but its so common. Start innings with fresh guys who can throw as many warm up pitches as they want before entering. Not the cold guy who just sat the bench and struggled to get through the previous inning like Baker did in Atl Sat or Baumann did yesterday. Why are you pushing your luck when youre gonna pull them anyway. The guy in the pen is warming. Hes already up and ready. Why push it. Or like last night he doesnt let Cano finish an inning after giving up 1 two out hit and a low pitch count. Only to then have his closer get cold on the bench for a 4 out save. Why we sending guys to the dugout and coming back out so often. Mostly 1 inning guys in high lev games. Yeah, Austin Voth is gonna be expected to go sit and come back out if he comes into the game in the 4th or 5th inning. This man constantly starts fires with the BP useage. To this point the guys coming in have done a good job of putting them out but you play with fire long enough we know what happens.

[mweb08]

Elias isn't on the phone with the dugout all game calling in who to pitch, but I'd be shocked if they don't talk close to daily about strategy, what they did, what was good/bad, etc.

Hyde is responsible for the in game stuff and if he makes mistakes gets the bulk of the blame for that. But Elias is responsible for Hyde, so if certain things happen over and over Elias is implicitly giving his approval. It would just take one discussion--"I don't think we should take Ced out of leadoff vs lefties all the time," or "I think the approach to the bullpen should shift a bit..." and it would change. That is, it would change if Elias disagreed as strongly as 2035 does.

Yes, of course.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Elias isn't on the phone with the dugout all game calling in who to pitch, but I'd be shocked if they don't talk close to daily about strategy, what they did, what was good/bad, etc.

Hyde is responsible for the in game stuff and if he makes mistakes gets the bulk of the blame for that. But Elias is responsible for Hyde, so if certain things happen over and over Elias is implicitly giving his approval. It would just take one discussion--"I don't think we should take Ced out of leadoff vs lefties all the time," or "I think the approach to the bullpen should shift a bit..." and it would change. That is, it would change if Elias disagreed as strongly as 2035 does.

Hes not firing Hyde right now. Nor is he going to step on his toes. This goes exactly to my point. They arent as hands on in game as people make it seem. I hate Hydes BP management and if I was in Elias's role right now what could I really be expected to do or say to him. Just start blasting him to his face for starting fires that the guys have put out successfully to this point on a team 10 games over .500? Not realistic. And when I say blasting him to his face I dont mean literally telling him he sucks. Even subtlety isnt gonna go over very well.


To me thats like if Hyde were to take away the closers job from Bautista right now. Or pull him into the office and suggest he do better. Its not realistic. We all see Bautista is struggling but to this point he hasnt blown a save since Boston.

[Mackus]

Simple question. If the GM is running the daily stuff then why do you even need a manager? The GM can just phone down to some flunky and tell them what to do. 

 

I seriously doubt that Elias is dealing at all with the in game stuff. I suspect his only real influence is on the roster manipulations.

 

Absolutely nobody thinks Elias or anyone in the front office is phoning down in-game decisions.  That's an unfair strawman argument.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Absolutely nobody thinks Elias or anyone in the front office is phoning down in-game decisions. That's an unfair strawman argument.

Essentially thats what is being argued. It absolutely is. Hyde is responsible for in game decisions. Period. Any suggestion otherwise is deflecting blame. So when Weber in here acting like Hydes constant botching is on Elias thats ridiculous. I say we got a Hyde and Bautista problem and he implies we have an Elias problem too. For an issue thats Hyde's doing. GTFO. Now, yes, its on Elias to find a better manager but thats something that realistically cant be solved right now.

[Mackus]

Essentially thats what is being argued. It absolutely is. You cant have it both ways. Hyde is responsible for in game decisions. Period. Any suggestion otherwise is deflecting blame. So when Weber in here acting like Hydes constant botching is on Hyde thats just BS. Now, yes, its on Elias to find a better manager but thats something that realistically cant be solved right now.

No, it certainly is not.

 

I think Hyde makes all decisions based on pre-discussed strategic imperatives from the front office.  I wouldn't be surprised if there is even a formal method for relaying matchup type information, such as having a chart that says which hitters should be used against opposing pitchers.  Or it could be more informal. 

 

Every choice is his own, but everything he does is based on input and training from the front office on how to approach such decisions.