79 replies to this topic

[cprenegade]

Porter is slip sliding away. Really aint even hearing he was an option at 22. Banks went 2 picks later so thats a fair couldve had guy. I like Flowers. Hes not gonna turn into an All Pro at his size but who does outside of Hill. If he gives me the threat and production Brown gave me in his time here Ill happily take that

 

I don't know, I really didn't see Porter play at all.  I did read where he held opposing team QBs to 35% completion pct in man to man coverage.  That would seem to bode well for a team that wants to blitz a lot.  Also read where he tends be hands on and draw PI calls so that's not so good.  A lot of comparisons were to Chris McCallister.  

 

Either way I think the Steelers were the biggest benefactors of Porter dropping.  I would bet good money that they pick him with the first pick in the second round tonight.  

[makoman]

Or they can just ride out his final year and likely take a nice comp pick for him next year. I think that plays a role too. The draft class this year is thought to be weaker than the projected one next year so what do you back in compensation to make worth losing Queen and getting a comp pick next year in a deeper draft class

FWIW the comp pick would be in two years, based on whatever FA contract he signed next year. The rest of the post is reasonable though.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

FWIW the comp pick would be in two years, based on whatever FA contract he signed next year. The rest of the post is reasonable though.

Yes right. Good point.That makes a difference. A 3rd now is def more valuable than one in 2 years. And thats not guaranteed. Queen would need to perform and get a big contract to qualify for a 3rd anyway. I think a trade tonight is something thats a real possibility.

[Mackus]

Was considering that option earlier. Its possible. One thing I saw recently about 5th yr option is that its now fully guaranteed. That is a change in new CBA. The guy who dropped that nugget was opining that made early 2nd round picks a bit more valuable than late 1sts now. I dont know about that. You can always decline the option but regardless the full guarantee changes things. I dont expect them to pick up the option on Queen. EDC at any point couldve said yes or thats likely. He has in the past. Queen also scrubbed his social media of Ravens stuff awhile back. Kinda telling. Hes prob requested a trade. Its an interesting subplot to tonight. Not sure he is worth a 2nd but maybe a 3rd. Or they can just ride out his final year and likely take a nice comp pick for him next year. I think that plays a role too. The draft class this year is thought to be weaker than the projected one next year. What do you need to get back in compensation this year to make it worth losing Queen when youll likelt still recoup a comp pick

 

They've been fully guaranteed since 2018, basically since the fiasco with RG3.

 

I think Queen probably doesn't net a 3rd round comp pick.  This year you had to lose a guy who signed for over $16M APY to get a 3rd.  That'll go up slightly as time goes.  Even the 4th/5th round cutoff was around $11M APY.  There's more that goes into that than just salary, particularly playing time, but I'd guess that its a 4th we get back for losing Queen, and more likely to be a 5th and a 3rd.  And like makoman said, not until a year after he leaves as a FA, so the 2025 draft if you decline the option.

 

I'm neutral on trading him for a 3rd, could go either way.  Would be generally in favor of doing it for a 2nd.  Against a 4th.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

They've been fully guaranteed since 2018, basically since the fiasco with RG3.

I think Queen probably doesn't net a 3rd round comp pick. This year you had to lose a guy who signed for over $16M APY to get a 3rd. That'll go up slightly as time goes. Even the 4th/5th round cutoff was around $11M APY. There's more that goes into that than just salary, particularly playing time, but I'd guess that its a 4th we get back for losing Queen, and more likely to be a 5th and a 3rd. And like makoman said, not until a year after he leaves as a FA, so the 2025 draft if you decline the option.

I'm neutral on trading him for a 3rd, could go either way. Would be generally in favor of doing it for a 2nd. Against a 4th.

A 3rd this year has always felt like the right value. Unless they get fancy and start swapping picks. Then a 2nd round possible. I def wont be holding my breath thinking the Ravens will be on the clock anytime in the 2nd tonight.

[Bmore Irish]

If some team really wants to give up a 2nd round pick for Queen, I'd hope the Ravens make that trade in a heartbeat. They traded a 2nd and a 5th for Roquan Smith. Recouping that same 2nd by moving a LB who you're not going to sign beyond this season anyway seems like a no-brainer. Especially when you already got a season out of both of those players for the cost of that 2nd.

 

A 2nd rounder just seems like too much for another team to want to pay, but EDC and company have found these trade partners before, so it's certainly possible.

[Slidemaster]

For what it's worth (almost nothing), Kiper loves Flowers. Expects him to be a plug and play slot receiver with defense breaking speed. Basically a tougher Hollywood who runs better routes.

[Bmore Irish]

Flowers is short but he's not built tiny like Hollywood, who got to the league and basically looked like he was just trying to avoid being broken in half at the end of plays. I think we're more likely to see actual run after the catch ability from Flowers in the NFL. And Monken's offense will hopefully be better at getting explosive playmakers the ball with room to create afterwards.

[makoman]

Flowers is short but he's not built tiny like Hollywood, who got to the league and basically looked like he was just trying to avoid being broken in half at the end of plays. I think we're more likely to see actual run after the catch ability from Flowers in the NFL. And Monken's offense will hopefully be better at getting explosive playmakers the ball with room to create afterwards.

Yeah I'd probably hate this pick if we still had Roman. We shall see, but I have more faith that Monken will adapt to what he has and won't force a square peg in a round hole.

[Ravens2006]

The little bit of highlight reel I've seen on Flowers is pretty encouraging.  Some of the cuts, change in direction, etc are pretty impressive... seems like he can make himself space with a very quick flip of the hips and burst.  That's pretty cool.  And Steve Smith is a guy I respected before he ever played here, and wish he would have been here his entire career, so if he truly approaches those comparisons... that pick is a MAJOR hit in my eyes.

[cprenegade]

For what it's worth (almost nothing), Kiper loves Flowers. Expects him to be a plug and play slot receiver with defense breaking speed. Basically a tougher Hollywood who runs better routes.

 

I put no stock in anything Kiper says when it comes to the Ravens.  He's very good at what he does, but he has a blind spot for them.  He graduated a year earlier from the same high school as me, Calvert Hall, and he is a die hard homer when it comes to the Ravens.  I can't remember him ever giving them a bad grade for a first round pick or a draft.  I believe that includes Perriman.  I'm not trying to disrespect him, I'm just saying he has a blind spot when it comes to his home team.  

[Biggsy]

I put no stock in anything Kiper says when it comes to the Ravens. He's very good at what he does, but he has a blind spot for them. He graduated a year earlier from the same high school as me, Calvert Hall, and he is a die hard homer when it comes to the Ravens. I can't remember him ever giving them a bad grade for a first round pick or a draft. I believe that includes Perriman. I'm not trying to disrespect him, I'm just saying he has a blind spot when it comes to his home team.

Didn't know Kiper was from the area. It makes sense. I agree with you, I'm not sure I've ever heard him say a bad thing about a Ravens pick.

Even their mid round guys. It always seems like as soon as the pick is announced, Kiper is immediately gushing about how they're a steal, and a hidden gem.

To his credit last night, I believe he was talking Flowers and the fit up prior to knowing he was the pick. Could be mis-remembering though.

[BSLChrisStoner]

It's not like he's discussing the Ravens picks in a vacuum though.  He's regularly speaking with the Front Office, probably more than any. He's getting their insights on guys, hearing how they'd project guys in their system....  all of that on top of his own familiarity with the players, and the team. 

And he's certainly not an outlier in his grades on the Ravens. 

[Mike B]

Didn't know Kiper was from the area. It makes sense. I agree with you, I'm not sure I've ever heard him say a bad thing about a Ravens pick.

Even their mid round guys. It always seems like as soon as the pick is announced, Kiper is immediately gushing about how they're a steal, and a hidden gem.

To his credit last night, I believe he was talking Flowers and the fit up prior to knowing he was the pick. Could be mis-remembering though.

Yea, Kiper used to sit upstairs in section 549 and he is an alum of Calvert Hall.

You are remembering correctly.  Riddick and Kiper were both suggesting the Ravens should take Flowers.

 

I like the pick but I am a homer too.

[Mike B]

It's not like he's discussing the Ravens picks in a vacuum though.  He's regularly speaking with the Front Office, probably more than any. He's getting their insights on guys, hearing how they'd project guys in their system....  all of that on top of his own familiarity with the players, and the team. 

And he's certainly not an outlier in his grades on the Ravens. 

The Ravens IMO, certainly get it right far more than they get it wrong drafting players.

[Biggsy]

It's not like he's discussing the Ravens picks in a vacuum though. He's regularly speaking with the Front Office, probably more than any. He's getting their insights on guys, hearing how they'd project guys in their system.... all of that on top of his own familiarity with the players, and the team.

And he's certainly not an outlier in his grades on the Ravens.

Fair points. Just find it funny that the Ravens will take some guy in the 5th that no one has heard of, and Kiper will go off about how he was one of his personal favorites, and is one of the late rounds steals and a hidden gem.

I'm sure it's selective memory as well. I do remember him being critical in the past at times, can't remember who off the top of my head. But I'm certain it has happened.

[Mike B]

Fair points. Just find it funny that the Ravens will take some guy in the 5th that no one has heard of, and Kiper will go off about how he was one of his personal favorites, and is one of the late rounds steals and a hidden gem.

I'm sure it's selective memory as well. I do remember him being critical in the past at times, can't remember who off the top of my head. But I'm certain it has happened.

I think Kiper has his own big board and when one of "his guys" get picked, he reacts.  I think he does get more excited when the Ravens do it, because he is a fan, but he does it consistently with other teams too.  He was very complimentary of the Eagles and Seattle yesterday for example.  

[SonicAttack]

I love the pick, Lamar got an even better "Hollywood" IMO.  He can be the Raven's Tyreek Hill. 

[BSLMikeLowe]

It's paywalled, but Kiper did a list of his "favorite" prospects 10 days before the draft. Here's his criteria.

 

• Often rated higher than other evaluators within the draft media or higher than team evaluators with whom I discuss prospects or ...

• Ranked higher in close debates within position groups or ...

• Watched and rewatched on tape, just because I like the way they play.

 

His favorite WR on that list? Zay Flowers. He also had Will McDonald as his favorite edge rusher, who ended up going higher than just about anyone expected.

[Slidemaster]

I love the pick, Lamar got an even better "Hollywood" IMO. He can be the Raven's Tyreek Hill.

I think it's unfair to ask him to be Tyreek, but Elijah Moore would be just fine.