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#41 Mike B

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 12:06 PM

So do GM's. And eventually owners. Thankfully. But it's okay, because we've got the best fans ever here on BSL that are looking after the financial health of the organization, so we'll be alright.

Very true, but bad owners and GM's can do a lot more damage to an organization then a bad player.  Unfortunately we have had one for a long time.


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#42 Mike B

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 12:08 PM

It really would not be shocking if they trade Felix this year. If he's having a great year and they aren't in stronger playoff position than they were in last year, I could see it happening.

He is not even to arbitration, so if we were to trade him while he is having a great year the return should be very high.  I think if he repeats last years success, he will be on the roster all year.


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#43 weird-O

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 12:12 PM

Oh, I hope they sell the team tomorrow. But I do think John has pretty much handed the reigns over to Elias. I’m sure that included a budget that is much, much lower than it should be but I think a lot of it is Elias’ choice. He’s clearly much more worried about the next 5-7 years then the 2023 season still for everyone’s liking.

It's so frustrating interacting with you, because you always say the right things and articulate why you have the opinion you have :D


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#44 mweb08

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 12:22 PM

He is not even to arbitration, so if we were to trade him while he is having a great year the return should be very high. I think if he repeats last years success, he will be on the roster all year.


Quite possibly. However, I could see Elias being tempted by the trade value you allude to.

#45 weird-O

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 12:23 PM


I’m not at all surprised by what we’ve seen this offseason. I never expected them to acquire impact players via spending money. 

This is how I feel. I had one unanswered question about the O's, will John commit the money to allow for impact additions. I didn't think he would, but I held out hope. Now that question has been answered. I can put that hope to bed for as long as they own this team. 


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#46 mweb08

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 12:24 PM

Oh, I hope they sell the team tomorrow. But I do think John has pretty much handed the reigns over to Elias. I’m sure that included a budget that is much, much lower than it should be but I think a lot of it is Elias’ choice. He’s clearly much more worried about the next 5-7 years then the 2023 season still for everyone’s liking.


The frustrating thing is that he should have been worried about both and a lot of what we've been calling for wouldn't have damaged the longterm outlook much, if at all.
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#47 BobPhelan

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 01:24 PM

It really would not be shocking if they trade Felix this year. If he's having a great year and they aren't in stronger playoff position than they were in last year, I could see it happening.


I’d be shocked. And dismayed. Unless it was the center piece in a trade for a front line starter or something.

#48 Mackus

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 02:33 PM

I'll side with the "shocked if they trade Felix" folks.  I think him struggling to the point of requiring a demotion is more likely than being traded, if we're talking about reasons he may not be on the active roster for his bobblehead night.


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#49 dude

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 11:40 PM

I'll side with the "shocked if they trade Felix" folks.  I think him struggling to the point of requiring a demotion is more likely than being traded, if we're talking about reasons he may not be on the active roster for his bobblehead night.

 

I have zero idea of the context for a discussion where he's traded.  I'll bet anything they don't.  Not even worth discussing as a joke.

 

If he's not here (as Mackus just said) it's because of poor performance and he's sent to the minors to fix something. I hope that's not the case.  Elite stuff.  Throw quality strikes. I would still prefer another guy was in the closer role and you use Bautista in the highest leverage situations prior to the 9th, but it is what it is now.



#50 dude

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 12:03 AM

An elite talent pipeline was promised and that was delivered and I believe will be sustained. 

 

There's a logic flaw in the overall narrative you (and everyone that buys into the process) can not get away from.



#51 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 03:09 AM

Your summation of what they've done is spot on. They delivered on their promise of building a very strong system. But now it's time to move to phase two, not just stand pat and congratulate themselves on a job well done. And I think that is at the heart of his question. There is no excuse for not adding players to fill the empty spaces. Players Elias said he was targeting. I don't see you as a cheerleader, like your disciple. But maintaining confidence in ownership's willingness to spend, is akin to believing Lucy won't pull away the football this time. There is no future date where the O's will be in a better position to spend, than this off season, which is effectively over. And what do we have to show for it? The Angelos family gazing over their riches and smiling at all the O's fan's who still believe in their commitment to fielding a competitive team.

Lol@ disciple. Its a respect thing because he gets it and we are generally on the same page when it comes to the excitement around the player development and what that means for the ML club going forward. Make no mistake there is no "following" going on here. I said 90% of what he said before he said it.


Furthermore it isnt like it takes some huge leap of faith to believe in this farm system,player development and ultimately the confidence they will churn out quality ML players. If most people would just take the time and educate themselves on what is going on they should come to the same conclusion. I say FA is often fools gold and I bet on the Os to win the division because of the belief that we can and will win despite not spending much in FA this offseason and likely future offseasons
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#52 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 03:12 AM

My thoughts on Elias and the organization really have not changed much. I think he has done a fine job building the farm system, and creating a structure to the organization. I still hate the way he went about it, and dislike the arrogance he displays at times. All that said, my concern is whether he can make the transition from "farm director" to a GM that can make good trades and acquisitions to augment a decent team. We will see.
JMO, but I think this team is good enough, to warrant our interest. As I have said before, I think this team could be bad enough to lose 90 games or good enough to win 90, but with all the young players it should be an interesting watch.
I am trying real hard to not join in all the negative Oriole and Ravens non-sense and just root for our two professional teams.

Is he still a "farm director" if he wins while relying heavily on the backs of that farm system producing in the Majors. Because if it is then sign me up for the "farm director" running every aspect of the orgnization.

#53 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 03:21 AM


It really would not be shocking if they trade Felix this year. If he's having a great year and they aren't in stronger playoff position than they were in last year, I could see it happening.

Nope. The window is open. Ill reject the notion that he will trade any young team controlled player for prospects. If Bautista somehow were to be moved it would be for a ML asset. If we are a non contender this year the only guys I could see being moved for prospects are pending FAs or ones with 1 yr left. That means Santander, Frazier, Gibson, Means, McCann. Dont think anymore qualify. I agree that moving RP with service time is more likely than non RP but I dont see Bautists going if remains very good. Could see a Perez or Baker or Tate going because the seem to be more volitile and dont have as overwhelming of an arsenal as Felix.

#54 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 08:31 AM

If most people would just take the time and educate themselves on what is going on they should come to the same conclusion. I say FA is often fools gold and I bet on the Os to win the division because of the belief that we can and will win despite not spending much in FA this offseason and likely future offseasons


So… not a ‘D’. Got it.
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#55 Slidemaster

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 08:39 AM

First of all, I’m not telling anyone they’re wrong to feel upset about the decisions surrounding last years trade deadline or this offseason. Differences in opinion are just that, and I’m not exactly thrilled about the offseason either, but the disingenuous “better trade Adley for more prospects” type of comments are not living in reality.

I get the frustration but my confidence comes from everything this front office has done since they took over and projecting that forward. An elite talent pipeline was promised and that was delivered and I believe will be sustained. The coaches and player development are among the best in the sport and are all on the same page, no mixed messages at each stop up the ladder. No matter what you think of it they have a plan and a reason for each move they make. The amount of money that will be spent comes down to ownership but I see no reason why they wouldn’t take steps to be perennial contenders when we’re already right in the cusp of that.

You can call me naive and maybe I’ll be wrong. But I’m confident. And I know the front office, coaches, and players up and down the system are too.

So, all of this is reasonable. I don't feel exactly the same, but the position makes sense.

With all of that said, if not this year, when are they going to feel like they're "right on the cusp?" Why would this not be the year? What are they waiting for, coming off of a tremendously improved season with exciting young players all over the roster? What is so dejecting for me is that it seems obvious that the time to add legit veteran talent is now. Not next year. Not 2025. Now. After wasting seasons in the name of acquiring premium draft capital, it now feels like they're wasting another for no reason at all by making the decision to not try very hard to improve.

I will never complain about the acquisition and development of a pipeline of talent. For years (decades?) that had been my biggest concern, and for the first time it appears like it's truly being done differently. But, you can't always play for next year. At some point you have to invest in who you are today, not who you might be tomorrow. The ultimate goal is to win a world series, not be a serviceable, watchable product. That is very likely not happening without outside help.

I agree that some of the barbs are a little over the top, and I'm guilty of them at times as well. However, I think, while they're likely intentionally hyperbolic, they're rooted in a real fear that watching these young stars get traded with a year or more service time left is an inevitability because of the lack of investment. There's been no indicators yet that this team will do what is necessary to sign premium talent or extend their own. Until they prove otherwise, they will be very hard to trust.
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#56 weird-O

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 08:54 AM

I say FA is often fools gold

Well, this is just another example of how you curtail your opinions to align with Elias's actions (or lack there of). This is a very different position than the guy who said they would be very active in the FA market, even if it's only at the mid-tier level. Or the guy who said he believed Elias's promises that this winter would be very different than years past.  


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#57 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 09:23 AM


So… not a ‘D’. Got it.

Free Agency was a D. Why is this so hard to comprehend for you. FA is also often fools gold and though I wish we would have been more active I believe we can and will win without a significant FA presence and I bet on it. Ill also be taking not just the long odds of winning the division but the shorter odds of making the playoffs when those hit the board.

#58 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 09:25 AM


Well, this is just another example of how you curtail your opinions to align with Elias's actions (or lack there of). This is a very different position than the guy who said they would be very active in the FA market, even if it's only at the mid-tier level. Or the guy who said he believed Elias's promises that this winter would be very different than years past.

It was different than years past. Nonetheless Ill say for no less than the 20th time now that free agency was a disappointment and that aspect of the offseason gets a poor grade. How many more times are you guys going to ignore me saying that.

#59 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 09:26 AM

Free Agency was a D. Why is this so hard to comprehend for you. FA is also often fools gold and though I wish we would have been more active I believe we can and will win without a sign FA presence and I bet on it. Ill also be taking nit just the long odds of winning the division but the shorter odds of making the playoffs when those hit the board.

Odd, because Elias wouldn't even make that bet. He's the kind of GM that wouldn't make that bet until it was basically a sure thing. A -1500 or so. So good for you, at least you're willing to buy in and believe. That's one thing that separates you from Slick Mike.



#60 BobPhelan

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Posted 13 January 2023 - 09:29 AM

There's a logic flaw in the overall narrative you (and everyone that buys into the process) can not get away from.


Please expand.




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