79 replies to this topic

[weird-O]

Watch out, you might be accused of being bitter.  Real fans should be happy that the Orioles were sellers at the deadline even though they were in the wildcard race.  And real fans should be happy that little has been done to build on the 83 win season.

Come on man, don't be a Bitter Billy. It's only Jan 12th. They have until, like, August 1st to make a trade. 

[BSLBobPhelan]

Curious - what makes you so much more optimistic than most here that this FO is genuinely interested in doing what it takes to win a world series?

Do you believe they would ever add a big time FA? Do you believe they are not only capable but willing to part with good prospects for a trade target that makes them better?

Not a challenge, more curious what you see that we're all missing.

First of all, I’m not telling anyone they’re wrong to feel upset about the decisions surrounding last years trade deadline or this offseason. Differences in opinion are just that, and I’m not exactly thrilled about the offseason either, but the disingenuous “better trade Adley for more prospects” type of comments are not living in reality.

I get the frustration but my confidence comes from everything this front office has done since they took over and projecting that forward. An elite talent pipeline was promised and that was delivered and I believe will be sustained. The coaches and player development are among the best in the sport and are all on the same page, no mixed messages at each stop up the ladder. No matter what you think of it they have a plan and a reason for each move they make. The amount of money that will be spent comes down to ownership but I see no reason why they wouldn’t take steps to be perennial contenders when we’re already right in the cusp of that.

You can call me naive and maybe I’ll be wrong. But I’m confident. And I know the front office, coaches, and players up and down the system are too.

[Mike B]

The Eddie Murray bobblehead might be the only thing that gets me in the stadium this season.

I will be going to games, and I am not a giveaway guy, but that caught my eye.  After Brooks, Eddie is probably my favorite Oriole.

[You Play to Win the Game]

First of all, I’m not telling anyone they’re wrong to feel upset about the decisions surrounding last years trade deadline or this offseason. Differences in opinion are just that, and I’m not exactly thrilled about the offseason either, but the disingenuous “better trade Adley for more prospects” type of comments are not living in reality.

I get the frustration but my confidence comes from everything this front office has done since they took over and projecting that forward. An elite talent pipeline was promised and that was delivered and I believe will be sustained. The coaches and player development are among the best in the sport and are all on the same page, no mixed messages at each stop up the ladder. No matter what you think of it they have a plan and a reason for each move they make. The amount of money that will be spent comes down to ownership but I see no reason why they wouldn’t take steps to be perennial contenders when we’re already right in the cusp of that.

You can call me naive and maybe I’ll be wrong. But I’m confident. And I know the front office, coaches, and players up and down the system are too.

I don't think anyone here wants you to be wrong. Quite the opposite.

 

Frankly though, there's no justification to call a fan disingenuous for being afraid of eventually trading Adley, when the GM has decided 2022 wasn't time, and now 2023 isn't time either. There is no extra credit for fans who don't get upset over not trying. I won't enjoy the success any less when it does finally happen, because I am upset at Elias for punting on 2022 and 2023. It doesn't make me less intelligent, more disingenuous, or whatever else people want to say about the fan uproar this winter. 

[weird-O]

First of all, I’m not telling anyone they’re wrong to feel upset about the decisions surrounding last years trade deadline or this offseason. Differences in opinion are just that, and I’m not exactly thrilled about the offseason either, but the disingenuous “better trade Adley for more prospects” type of comments are not living in reality.

I get the frustration but my confidence comes from everything this front office has done since they took over and projecting that forward. An elite talent pipeline was promised and that was delivered and I believe will be sustained. The coaches and player development are among the best in the sport and are all on the same page, no mixed messages at each stop up the ladder. No matter what you think of it they have a plan and a reason for each move they make. The amount of money that will be spent comes down to ownership but I see no reason why they wouldn’t take steps to be perennial contenders when we’re already right in the cusp of that.

You can call me naive and maybe I’ll be wrong. But I’m confident. And I know the front office, coaches, and players up and down the system are too.

Your summation of what they've done is spot on. They delivered on their promise of building a very strong system. But now it's time to move to phase two, not just stand pat and congratulate themselves on a job well done. And I think that is at the heart of his question. There is no excuse for not adding players to fill the empty spaces. Players Elias said he was targeting. I don't see you as a cheerleader, like your disciple. But maintaining confidence in ownership's willingness to spend, is akin to believing Lucy won't pull away the football this time. There is no future date where the O's will be in a better position to spend, than this off season, which is effectively over. And what do we have to show for it? The Angelos family gazing over their riches and smiling at all the O's fan's who still believe in their commitment to fielding a competitive team. 

[BSLBobPhelan]

I don't think anyone here wants you to be wrong. Quite the opposite.

Frankly though, there's no justification to call a fan disingenuous for being afraid of eventually trading Adley, when the GM has decided 2022 wasn't time, and now 2023 isn't time either. There is no extra credit for fans who don't get upset over not trying. I won't enjoy the success any less when it does finally happen, because I am upset at Elias for punting on 2022 and 2023. It doesn't make me less intelligent, more disingenuous, or whatever else people want to say about the fan uproar this winter.

I thought I gave enough disclaimers to signal I wasn’t talking about you, Mackus, Weber, Mike, etc but to be clear I’m not.

It’s the “better trade Adley now” and “hope Bautista is even still here in August lol” stuff that I’m talking about. An 8-10 year extension for Adley before the season starts would go a long way to proving their commitment to long term success. Hope it happens.

[BSLBobPhelan]

Your summation of what they've done is spot on. They delivered on their promise of building a very strong system. But now it's time to move to phase two, not just stand pat and congratulate themselves on a job well done. And I think that is at the heart of his question. There is no excuse for not adding players to fill the empty spaces. Players Elias said he was targeting. I don't see you as a cheerleader, like your disciple. But maintaining confidence in ownership's willingness to spend, is akin to believing Lucy won't pull away the football this time. There is no future date where the O's will be in a better position to spend, than this off season, which is effectively over. And what do we have to show for it? The Angelos family gazing over their riches and smiling at all the O's fan's who still believe in their commitment to fielding a competitive team.

Oh, I hope they sell the team tomorrow. But I do think John has pretty much handed the reigns over to Elias. I’m sure that included a budget that is much, much lower than it should be but I think a lot of it is Elias’ choice. He’s clearly much more worried about the next 5-7 years then the 2023 season still for everyone’s liking.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I thought I gave enough disclaimers to signal I wasn’t talking about you, Mackus, Weber, Mike, etc but to be clear I’m not.

It’s the “better trade Adley now” and “hope Bautista is even still here in August lol” stuff that I’m talking about. An 8-10 year extension for Adley before the season starts would go a long way to proving their commitment to long term success. Hope it happens.

I mean you did but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't afraid of Adley and Gunnar being here short'ish term similar to Manny. That is definitely a fear I have. One I hope I'm very wrong about. Agreed BTW, an Adley extension would actually go a long way towards calming me down, because what is driving my anger the past 7 months, is a fear that we are going to be perpetually spinning our tires and recycling through prospects, but never actually going for it. 

 

Extending Adley + not signing any notable FA's this off-season >>>>>>> Not extending Adley + not signing any notable FA's this off-season. 

 

At the least, it would signal some kind of commitment to the long term. But it appears they aren't even willing to go beyond year-to-year for our blue chippers. Plenty of time for that to change, but it would 've gone a long way in settling peoples nerves this winter.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I don't think anyone here wants you to be wrong. Quite the opposite.

 

Frankly though, there's no justification to call a fan disingenuous for being afraid of eventually trading Adley, when the GM has decided 2022 wasn't time, and now 2023 isn't time either. There is no extra credit for fans who don't get upset over not trying. I won't enjoy the success any less when it does finally happen, because I am upset at Elias for punting on 2022 and 2023. It doesn't make me less intelligent, more disingenuous, or whatever else people want to say about the fan uproar this winter. 

FTR here in '23... I won't want an Adley extension if it doesn't happen soon.  
I'd like a deal now through his arb years, and for a year or 2 into his FA years..... but if that isn't in the cards, I'll be fine with trading him in 5 years. 

[Mike B]

Oh, I hope they sell the team tomorrow. But I do think John has pretty much handed the reigns over to Elias. I’m sure that included a budget that is much, much lower than it should be but I think a lot of it is Elias’ choice. He’s clearly much more worried about the next 5-7 years then the 2023 season still for everyone’s liking.

My thoughts on Elias and the organization really have not changed much.  I think he has done a fine job building the farm system, and creating a structure to the organization.  I still hate the way he went about it, and dislike the arrogance he displays at times.  All that said, my concern is whether he can make the transition from "farm director" to a GM that can make good trades and acquisitions to augment a decent team.  We will see.

JMO, but I think this team is good enough, to warrant our interest.  As I have said before, I think this team could be bad enough to lose 90 games or good enough to win 90, but with all the young players it should be an interesting watch.

  I am trying real hard to not join in all the negative Oriole and Ravens non-sense and just root for our two professional teams.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Oh, I hope they sell the team tomorrow. But I do think John has pretty much handed the reigns over to Elias. I’m sure that included a budget that is much, much lower than it should be but I think a lot of it is Elias’ choice. He’s clearly much more worried about the next 5-7 years then the 2023 season still for everyone’s liking.

I’m not at all surprised by what we’ve seen this offseason. I never expected them to acquire impact players via spending money. Seeing how the Angelos’s operate for about the past 20 years was all the indication I needed, despite a different GM. But my low expectations going in leave me no less disappointed or irritated knowing what they could have done within a very reasonable budget, hence the occasional snark directed at no one on this board.

 

I agree with you that Elias is likely just fine with the Oakland budget he’s been given, and maybe even prefers to operate that way. But I hope he’s learned a lesson when it comes to managing fan expectations, because he’s definitely written some checks with his mouth that the Angelos’s will not cash.

[You Play to Win the Game]

FTR here in '23... I won't want an Adley extension if it doesn't happen soon.  
I'd like a deal now through his arb years, and for a year or 2 into his FA years..... but if that isn't in the cards, I'll be fine with trading him in 5 years. 

Because being as risk averse as possible is the actual goal of a baseball team. Not trying to win World Series, while absorbing some risk. Got it. They'd probably hire you.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Because being as risk averse as possible is the actual goal of a baseball team. Not trying to win World Series, while absorbing some risk. Got it. They'd probably hire you.

I generally don't care about the names on the back of the jersey... and I won't want to invest big money into a catcher in his declining years.  That doesn't equate at all to not trying to win.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I generally don't care about the names on the back of the jersey... and I won't want to invest big money into a catcher in his declining years.  That doesn't equate at all to not trying to win.

Cal would've been a Yankee if Chris Stoner was in charge.

 

Like it or not, Adley is the face of the rebuild. The first sign of hope after escaping the drudges of a several hundred loss intentional "rebuild". Some things matter more than just the bottom line price tag. 

 

This is just an asinine thing to be floating already in Adley's 2nd year. Shouldn't be on our minds, shouldn't at all be the goal.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Cal would've been a Yankee if Chris Stoner was in charge.

 

Like it or not, Adley is the face of the rebuild. The first sign of hope after escaping the drudges of a several hundred loss intentional "rebuild". Some things matter more than just the bottom line price tag. 

 

This is just an asinine thing to be floating already in Adley's 2nd year. Shouldn't be on our minds, shouldn't at all be the goal.

 

Players come and go. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

Players come and go. 

So do GM's. And eventually owners. Thankfully. But it's okay, because we've got the best fans ever here on BSL that are looking after the financial health of the organization, so we'll be alright.

[Mackus]

FTR here in '23... I won't want an Adley extension if it doesn't happen soon.  
I'd like a deal now through his arb years, and for a year or 2 into his FA years..... but if that isn't in the cards, I'll be fine with trading him in 5 years. 

 

Just a minor point...since he got credit for a full year of service, he's a FA in 5 years, so you can't trade him then as he'll be gone anyways.  

[BSLMikeLowe]

Cal would've been a Yankee if Chris Stoner was in charge.

 

Like it or not, Adley is the face of the rebuild. The first sign of hope after escaping the drudges of a several hundred loss intentional "rebuild". Some things matter more than just the bottom line price tag. 

 

This is just an asinine thing to be floating already in Adley's 2nd year. Shouldn't be on our minds, shouldn't at all be the goal.

 

Given how they've burned bridges with Adam Jones, the most consequential Oriole of this century so far, is a pretty clear indication that they don't think the relationship between the fan base and any one player is all that important. Like Seinfeld said, we show up for the laundry.

[BSLBobPhelan]

I want Adley to be a lifelong Oriole. I think he’ll hit enough to eventually move to first base (hopefully well down the line) and the intangibles are off the charts.

[mweb08]

It really would not be shocking if they trade Felix this year. If he's having a great year and they aren't in stronger playoff position than they were in last year, I could see it happening.