783 replies to this topic

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Brady numerous times, Manning , Stafford. How many times does just a solid QB win a SB. Other than Foles who got there on the back of Wentz being great, Flacco is easily the worst QB to win a SB in the last 10 years. And he was just solid. Its about being in position to win SBs. Deep runs as much as actually winning it. How many times do we see deep runs with less than great QBs. Jared Goff got an otherwise very talented Rams team to the SB but it became clear he couldnt get them over the hump in following years. Foles was given a 2nd and 3rd chance to prove he could get a team to the playoffs and make a run after his playoff run. THat failed miserably. We sit here and bitch about not being on the Bills and Chiefs level but guess what two QBs on huge deals. Who wouldve guessed.

[Old Man]

Brady numerous times, Manning , Stafford. How many times does just a solid QB win a SB. Other than Foles who got there on the back of Wentz being great, Flacco is easily the worst QB to win a SB in the last 10 years. And he was just solid. Its about being in position to win SBs. Deep runs as much as actually winning it. How many times do we see deep runs with less than great QBs. Jared Goff got an otherwise very talented Rams team to the SB but it became clear he couldnt get them over the hump in following years. Foles was given a 2nd and 3rd chance to prove he could get a team to the playoffs and make a run after his playoff run. THat failed miserably. We sit here and bitch about not being on the Bills and Chiefs level but guess what two QBs on huge deals. Who wouldve guessed.

I know you said last 10 years.

 

Trent is the worst QB to ever win a SB

https://bleacherrepo...super-bowl-ring

[Slidemaster]

Brady numerous times, Manning , Stafford. How many times does just a solid QB win a SB. Other than Foles who got thre on the back of Wentz being great, Flacco is easily the worst QB to win a SB in the last 10 years. And he was just solid. Its about bein in position to win SBs. Deep runs as much as actually winning it. How many times do we see deep runs with less than great QBs. Jared Goff got an otherwise very talented Rams team to the SB but it became clear he couldnt get them over the hump. Foles was given a 2nd and 3rd chance to prove he could get a team to the playoffs and make a run after his playoff run. THat failed miserably. We sit here and bitch about not being on the Bills and Chiefs level but guess what two QBs on megadeals. Who wouldve guessed.

Brady was never on a megadeal like these that I can recall - he was well known for keeping his contract reasonable so franchises could give him the pieces he needed to win. Stafford was making a mere 20 million in 2021. I guess you could say Manning, who is one of the top 3 QBs of all time. Nobody else comes to mind.

[Old Man]

Brady was never on a megadeal like these that I can recall - he was well known for keeping his contract reasonable so franchises could give him the oieces he needed to win. Stafford was making a mere 20 million in 2021. I guess you could say Manning, who is one of the top 3 QBs of all time. Nobody else comes to mind.

Didnt he restructure a few times, when they needed to add pieces to the roster?????

[Slidemaster]

Didnt he restructure a few times, when they needed to add pieces to the roster?????

Pretty sure that's correct.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Its really hard to find a QB, even now. Its not impossible, but it is hard. And if you don't have one, you can't do anything. Shouldn't be an assumption that we can't find one, but have to weigh how hard it is to find one against how hard it is to win when so much of your cap is going to a star QB.

I'm rolling with Lamar and trying to find talent to put around him with 75-85% of the cap left to spend. Its not a great situation, but I like that better than no QB, a couple extra early picks, and the full cap to invest. If you find a good QB with one of those picks you're better off, and way better off if you find a great QB who'll be cheap for a while. But I still think Lamar is a great QB, and I'll take that locked in at top dollar over the gamble. If you think Lamar is merely an ok or good QB, then I understand being more inclined to the move on. I don't care at all about a "can't win the big one" or "always chokes" perception. I don't think that's real, but I won't try to change anyone's mind who thinks that way. I still think he's the most likely path to a championship over the next 5-10 years, because he'll keep you in the mix more often than not.

Of course this is exactly right. You can obviously have success in different ways. The ideal grand slam is when you draft a QB who is good enough during their rookie contract that you get 3-5 years of lower salary and can build around that. Weve seen teams like the Ravens with Flacco and Lamar, Wilson, Maholmes,etc have those windows but there are so many more cases of teams drafting QBs that just arent good enough. Busts- JAGs and everything in between. Everytime we hear about Jalen Hurts or Tua we have to remember how many teams spent missed on guys. Its obviously a much higher rate but you dont have me going through and listing every 1st or 2nd round QB drafted because the list is so long. And thats not even bringing in to guys who at one time during their rookie deals look like they are good enough (Baker,Goff) but cant even give you a real window on their rookie deals because they are inconsistent. So yeah its about playing the % and if I have to start naming 5 bad QBs for every 1 QB that succeeds on a rookie deal Im not worried about running out of names.

[makoman]

It's fair to add Goff's $24M dead money to last year, since the point is whether you can build a team while paying huge money to the QB position. So that's probably the only one, assuming mega deal means like 15% of the cap or more.

 

It's historically been pretty rare for anyone to make over 15% of the cap. I think it had happened like 10-20 times overall as of 2020, from something I read earlier but can't seem to find now. Only one team wins per year. Manning and Brady and Rodgers and Roethlisberger were often 10-15%, sometimes over. But they all seemed to win more when they were lower.

 

I have mixed feelings. But I think teams may be more willing to pay QBs much more than anyone else now so this "never happened" thing may not mean much going forward. Mahomes is 17% this year, Allen goes up to 17% next year.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Again its cherry picking to just point out who has won a SB. Its onviously about who can consistently put you in position. Maholmes does that, Manning did that, Roethliberger did that, Rodgers does that, NO had some mediocre years with Brees but he more often did that.



Ill ask a question. What former MVP caliber QB got big money and then fell off and had teams that became mediocre to poor while making big money. Cam?? Who else?? My list of those elite quality guys putting you in postion year over year is still longer

[Slidemaster]

Again its cherry picking to just point out who has won a SB. Its onviously about who can consistently put you in position. Maholmes does that, Manning did that, Roethliberger did that, Rodgers does that, NO had some mediocre years with Brees but he more often did that.



Ill ask a question. What former MVP caliber QB got big money and then fell off and had teams that became mediocre to poor while making big money. Cam?? Who else?? My list of those elite quality guys putting you in postion year over year is still longer

Wentz was on his way to an MVP before his injury.
Dak comes to mind too.

16 teams are "in position" every year.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Wentz was on his way to an MVP before his injury.
Dak comes to mind too.

16 teams are "in position" every year.

Yes an injury where he has never been the same after. Dak isnt quite in the same category as Lamar and the others I named in my opinion but nonetheless when Dak plays the Cowboys win more often than they lose.

[Mackus]

It's fair to add Goff's $24M dead money to last year, since the point is whether you can build a team while paying huge money to the QB position. So that's probably the only one, assuming mega deal means like 15% of the cap or more.

 

It's historically been pretty rare for anyone to make over 15% of the cap. I think it had happened like 10-20 times overall as of 2020, from something I read earlier but can't seem to find now. Only one team wins per year. Manning and Brady and Rodgers and Roethlisberger were often 10-15%, sometimes over. But they all seemed to win more when they were lower.

 

I have mixed feelings. But I think teams may be more willing to pay QBs much more than anyone else now so this "never happened" thing may not mean much going forward. Mahomes is 17% this year, Allen goes up to 17% next year.

 

Yeah the Rams had over $45M of the $182.5M cap dedicated to the position last year (split between Goff & Stafford but that's no different than how the Ravens will split it between Lamar and his backup).  That's the biggest chunk ever to QB as far as I can tell, but it did work out.

 

I really don't like only looking at SB-winning teams as being the relevant models.  Winning it all is the ultimate goal, but that doesn't mean only teams that won it all should be looked at as models.  Multiple teams each year could have won it, they just didn't.  I wanna be one of those small handful of teams that are the prime contenders as often as possible and hopefully will win one (or more).  I don't think there is anything unique that the Super Bowl winning team each year have done that the next few teams couldn't do.  Its just who happens to win the game.  Its a level above just getting into the playoffs, especially as it's expanding, but we needn't only look at SB champs, IMO.  

[Slidemaster]

Yes an injury where he has never been the same after. Dak isnt quite in the same category as Lamar and the others I named in my opinion but nonetheless when Dak plays the Cowboys win more often than they lose.

The injury is not the reason Wentz has been bad since.

Dak is a .500 QB since he signed his deal, so that is incorrect.

[Old Man]

Yeah the Rams had over $45M of the $182.5M cap dedicated to the position last year (split between Goff & Stafford but that's no different than how the Ravens will split it between Lamar and his backup).  That's the biggest chunk ever to QB as far as I can tell, but it did work out.

 

I really don't like only looking at SB-winning teams as being the relevant models.  Winning it all is the ultimate goal, but that doesn't mean only teams that won it all should be looked at as models.  Multiple teams each year could have won it, they just didn't.  I wanna be one of those small handful of teams that are the prime contenders as often as possible and hopefully will win one (or more).  I don't think there is anything unique that the Super Bowl winning team each year have done that the next few teams couldn't do.  Its just who happens to win the game.  Its above just getting into the playoffs, especially as it's expanding.  

If I wanted to emulate another team[s], I would look to somebody that has been there, and done that.

 

They must have either been lucky or done enough things right, that they didnt have to play the woulda, shoulda, coulda game.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

The injury is not the reason Wentz has been bad since.

Dak is a .500 QB since he signed his deal, so that is incorrect.

I dont even need to do any research on when he signed his deal to know this isnt true. I just had to look at his football reference page and see his record as a starter.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

And I said Dak isnt in the same category IMO. Murray isnt in that category either. Hurts wont be in that category thats for damn sure

[Slidemaster]

And I said Dak isnt in the same category IMO. Murray isnt in that category either. Hurts wont be in that category thats for damn sure

Okay, well if you say so it's obviously true.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I honestly don’t care what they do so long as they don’t remain mediocre. That’s EDC’s job to figure out, I don’t envy him, tough decisions ahead, but he will and should be held accountable at some point.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I honestly don’t care what they do so long as they don’t remain mediocre. That’s EDC’s job to figure out, I don’t envy him, tough decisions ahead, but he will and should be held accountable at some point.

Here is what I can tell you my friend. At least in the short term. I was not that excited for this season nor was I that excited through 3 weeks. I truly thought we were just mediocre. If I think we are just another meh team I dont have time for it. I will get pretty apathetic. My interest level is higher than I wouldve imagined a few weeks ago. There are good signs. We are a solid team.  Not a great team but a solid team and Im interested in solid especially when there is potential for more.

[makoman]

Here is what I can tell you my friend. At least in the short term. I was not that excited for this season nor was I that excited through 3 weeks. I truly thought we were just mediocre. If I think we are just another meh team I dont have time for it. I will get pretty apathetic. My interest level is higher than I wouldve imagined a few weeks ago. There are good signs. We are a solid team.  Not a great team but a solid team and Im interested in solid especially when there is potential for more.

There are positives. People still talk about 2019. I don't know if they'll ever come close to that again, but part of the reason that happened IMO was Stanley-Bozeman-Skura/Mekari-Yanda-Brown. By the Bills playoff game we had replaced Yanda with a green Powers and RT with a combo of Phillips and Fluker. Then last year was even worse. If he's really back, Stanley-Powers-Linderbaum-Zeitler-Moses/Mekari/Faalele isn't quite 2019, but is better than anything since. A good line makes a huge difference in everything that happens on offense. 

 

Still concerned about the defense. They've certainly done better but need to figure out how to get a stop when they need it. Bend don't break can work, but the break part is kinda important.

[jamesdean]

What also is sobering and funny to me is that it's incredibly hard to not only reach the Super Bowl but win it.  Team's rosters are just too displaceable year to year.  When was the last time anyone repeated?  15-20 years ago?  So, you really have to ask yourself how you define a successful season.  Is it a failure with anything less than bringing home the Lombardi Trophy?  Is it winning your division, winning at least a play-off game, having a winning record?  There's a lot of rotten teams over the past 10 years that would kill for a 9-8 season, Giants and Jets included.  I think a lot of our angst is a result of being spoiled with this organization and that's a good thing but I do think we as fans, lose sight of how difficult it is to win everything.  The fact that the Ravens have done it twice in their short history is pretty damn good in my opinion.  Not to mention, they've been to the playoffs most years.  It could be a lot worse, that's for sure.  Look what you Oriole fans have had to endure.  In any rate, just trying to temper some of the diatribe on here(mine included) and keep things in perspective.