99 replies to this topic

[SportsGuy]

Is it for sure, that he's staying here. I mean, this doesn't necesarily mean that he's signed an extension with the O's does it? Your post is a bit confusing. On one hand you say the Sox passed on Peterson and then you say that he might be staying because they offered him more money or he likes the job better, kinda like he passed on the Red Sox instead of the other way around.


Sorry. Read JTreas post and your reply as one.

No it doesn't...For all we know, he will get another ML pitching coach job this offseason.

I was speculating about why he didn't get it but it appears thats not right...He just didnt get the job.

[Mike B]

Surprised, but hopefully he will now stay with the O's

[1970]

Juan Nieves, that's a name I haven't heard in years. I remember when he was drafted and for some reason I followed his career as he made his way up to the majors with the Brewers. Does anyone remember him throwing a no hitter against the Orioles?

[SportsGuy]

Juan Nieves, that's a name I haven't heard in years. I remember when he was drafted and for some reason I followed his career as he made his way up to the majors with the Brewers. Does anyone remember him throwing a no hitter against the Orioles?

Yea...wasn't that in like 1987 or 88?

[1970]

I remember it happening, but didn't remember when so I looked it up. April 15 1987 - his second start of the season.

[SportsGuy]

I remember it happening, but didn't remember when so I looked it up. April 15 1987 - his second start of the season.

Yea I thought it was 1987. That's basically when I started watching, so I'm surprised I remember that.

[Mike B]

I was at the game. I remember Robin Yount making a diving catch for the last out to save the no hitter. I think Fred Lynn hit the ball.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Any news on Rick Peterson? I haven't heard or read anything about him since interviewing with Boston. He's a free agent, right? So do we even have plans of bringing him back if he doesn't find anything?

[Mike B]

Great question Ricker. I thought we would have heard something quick when RP did not get the Boston job.
Makes you wonder whether the Orioles and others in baseball hold RP in the same esteem some of us do.

[JeffLong]

Great question Ricker. I thought we would have heard something quick when RP did not get the Boston job.
Makes you wonder whether the Orioles and others in baseball hold RP in the same esteem some of us do.

Let me ask you a question...

What has he done to deserve a Pitching Coach job somewhere?

He was fired by the Mets... spent 6 months as a free agent, gets hired by the Brewers in '09. He's ultimately fired and replaced by Rick Kranitz with a year left on his contract in 2011. Get hired by the O's to be the director of pitching development in Jan. 2012.

During his tenure with the O's, some guys took big steps forward, others took steps back. You can point to the work he did with Tillman to say how good he is, and I can point to a few guys (like Bridwell) who didn't flourish.

I just don't see anything in there that screams "MLB Pitching Coach". I think that his skills and knowledge of the human body with regards to pitching is incredible. It takes a lot more than knowledge to be a good pitching coach though, so I'm just not sure. He seems like a good enough guy, and I've never been a huge fan of his approach. That said, I wouldn't hate if he was a part of the O's staff next year (not pitching coach) but I wouldn't hate it if he wasn't either.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Yeah, yeah, yeah... we know Jeff, you don't like RP, blah blah blah.

Did he even work with Bridwell?

[Mackus]

Let me ask you a question...

What has he done to deserve a Pitching Coach job somewhere?

You've answered your own question.

He's been a pitching coach with 3 organizations plus a minor league pitching coordinator with a 4th. That's enough to get hired anywhere as a pitching coach. The end result of the team's pitchers or how his tenure ended with each is fairly irrelevant. PCs change teams all the time.

What has Buck Showalter done to deserve a Manager's job somewhere?

[JeffLong]

You've answered your own question.

He's been a pitching coach with 3 organizations plus a minor league pitching coordinator with a 4th. That's enough to get hired anywhere as a pitching coach. The end result of the team's pitchers or how his tenure ended with each is fairly irrelevant. PCs change teams all the time.

What has Buck Showalter done to deserve a Manager's job somewhere?

You're begging the question. Just because you did a job once doesn't mean you are qualified to do it again. Buck's qualified because of his track record as a manager. Not because he was one once upon a time. Also his skill set is ideal for a managerial position.

Think about a PC's duties. I don't know Peterson personally or anything, but it's not like he's walking out on the mound with bases loaded and 2 outs telling the pitcher he needs to improve his arm angle by XX%.

I think that the role he was in last year is the ideal role for someone with his skill set. It doesn't really work to have a pitching coach some of your players don't want to work with (e.g. Bundy).

[Mackus]

You're begging the question. Just because you did a job once doesn't mean you are qualified to do it again. Buck's qualified because of his track record as a manager. Not because he was one once upon a time. Also his skill set is ideal for a managerial position.

Buck's track record as a manager wasn't amazing. His teams always did better after he left, what's that say?

Peterson's track record as a PC is at least as good as Buck's as a manager.

Peterson is perfectly qualified to be a pitching coach. Saying otherwise is complete nonsense. You may prefer someone else, but that doesn't make Peterson unqualified. If he's unqualified, so are most pitching coaches around the league.

[JeffLong]

Buck's track record as a manager wasn't amazing. His teams always did better after he left, what's that say?

Peterson's track record as a PC is at least as good as Buck's as a manager.

Peterson is perfectly qualified to be a pitching coach. Saying otherwise is complete nonsense. You may prefer someone else, but that doesn't make Peterson unqualified. If he's unqualified, so are most pitching coaches around the league.

This is going to be another instance where you and I have a fundamental difference in opinion.

Buck's track record as a manager to me is impressive. He had difficulty finding work because he can be hard to work with due to his meticulous nature. The work he did in Texas & Arizona laid the groundwork for successful teams.

I think that you can attribute a lot of the success for those winning teams to Buck, but it's clear that you'd disagree.

If you want to continue to argue, feel free to bring up his time in Oakland with the Big 3, and I'll counter with his tenure in NY.

[JeremyStrain]

My personal take on RP is that he is a guy that works best when working with young ML pitchers not yet set in their own ways (his most success was when he had the OAK big 3 when they first arrived). When he got to NY and dealt with a veteran staff it didn't work as well, same in MIL. In BAL he gets to work with the younger kids at all levels, but I think his sweet spot is after they learn the fundamentals and before they develop ML habits. Being a roving coach is probably best for him in that sense, but you don't get the attention or credit for that as you would being a ML PC (even though it should be considered a better position).

[JeffLong]

My personal take on RP is that he is a guy that works best when working with young ML pitchers not yet set in their own ways (his most success was when he had the OAK big 3 when they first arrived). When he got to NY and dealt with a veteran staff it didn't work as well, same in MIL. In BAL he gets to work with the younger kids at all levels, but I think his sweet spot is after they learn the fundamentals and before they develop ML habits. Being a roving coach is probably best for him in that sense, but you don't get the attention or credit for that as you would being a ML PC (even though it should be considered a better position).

This is kind of where I'm at. I also don't know enough about the big 3 in OAK to say anything definitive, but it's not like he took 3 unheralded guys and made them great. I think he's very good at fine-tuning guys who have the tools to succeed but can't put it all together (*cough* Tillman *cough*).

[Mackus]

This is going to be another instance where you and I have a fundamental difference in opinion.

Buck's track record as a manager to me is impressive. He had difficulty finding work because he can be hard to work with due to his meticulous nature. The work he did in Texas & Arizona laid the groundwork for successful teams.

I think that you can attribute a lot of the success for those winning teams to Buck, but it's clear that you'd disagree.

If you want to continue to argue, feel free to bring up his time in Oakland with the Big 3, and I'll counter with his tenure in NY.

I'm not saying anything about Buck. Just pointing out that he and Peterson have similar resumes in terms of successes and failures at the jobs they've held.

I'm not saying he's a great pitching coach (nor am I saying he isn't). I'm just saying he's obviously a qualified candidate for that position. Different people and different organizations have different philosophies, so maybe he doesn't exactly match up with every single one of them, but when jobs like this come open, he's certainly a guy who's name is deserving of being in the conversation. Whether he lands the job or not is irrelevant to the point that he is certainly qualified to do the job. Saying otherwise is just wrong.

[JeremyStrain]

This is kind of where I'm at. I also don't know enough about the big 3 in OAK to say anything definitive, but it's not like he took 3 unheralded guys and made them great. I think he's very good at fine-tuning guys who have the tools to succeed but can't put it all together (*cough* Tillman *cough*).

Yeah something like that. They were ML ready, or just about and he helped refine them a smidge. I don't think he'd do as good from the ground up with prospects, and he's shown he doesn't do as well with veterans, but if you get him in that range he works best he is great.

I do have some concerns about Mulder breaking down at the end of his OAK run, and questions about why Hudson had some big injury issues in ATL but not OAK. Zito has always been durable, but we've all seen he wasn't the pitcher in SF that he was in OAK, the loss of velo after Peterson reminds me a lot of Tillman, so I wonder if Peterson has had success with Tillman because he had a very similar pitcher in Zito.

[JeffLong]

Yeah something like that. They were ML ready, or just about and he helped refine them a smidge. I don't think he'd do as good from the ground up with prospects, and he's shown he doesn't do as well with veterans, but if you get him in that range he works best he is great.

I do have some concerns about Mulder breaking down at the end of his OAK run, and questions about why Hudson had some big injury issues in ATL but not OAK. Zito has always been durable, but we've all seen he wasn't the pitcher in SF that he was in OAK, the loss of velo after Peterson reminds me a lot of Tillman, so I wonder if Peterson has had success with Tillman because he had a very similar pitcher in Zito.

They're a lot more alike than people think IMO. Tillman just happens to be right-handed & throws 7 MPH harder (or can anyway). Though I think Zito was low 90s in OAK.