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2022 Game 4: 10/2 Buffalo 1PM


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#821 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 02 October 2022 - 09:37 PM

Who is the last coach on the Ravens staff that moved on elsewhere as a promotion. Maybe there is some video assistent or something that got a positional job or something like that. Who is the last assistant either at a positional group that got a promotion to coordinator or from coordinator to head coach. Obviously Harbaugh has promoted from within but we arent being poached. Thats for damn sure.



#822 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 02 October 2022 - 09:41 PM


I also don't think it is too early to call out the DC. He looks like a deer in the headlights. I don't mean fire him, nobody should be judged a failure after only a few weeks in their job. But he looks like he is used to coaching a Michigan defense that was mostly superior in talent to almost every other team it played. This is the NFL. You actually have to analyze things, make adjustments, and change things up. You aren't always going to have an insurmountable edge in talent.

100%. Also the defense has kinda sucked for a while now. We’re all holding onto the past a bit, instead of being more honest about the ramifications of a very poor pass rush and a consistently injury riddled and worn down by the 4th quarter secondary - not to mention, terrible MiLB play.

“We have a shot at a wild card right now. But it is not a probability that we're going to win a wild card.” -2022 Trade Deadline

"It's liftoff from here" - after selling on 2022

"We're on a slight upward arc" - Winter Meetings 2022

"I think it's really hard to sit there and chart a course and say, 'We're likely to win the division.'" - Winter Meetings 2022

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#823 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 02 October 2022 - 09:42 PM

The defense stinks.

In my opinion, Harbaugh knows this and didn’t even trust them to hold them to 3 if we kicked the FG.

Me? I’m kicking and taking my chances.

I don’t think any of his decisions have been egregious but eventually you have to look at all the decisions that ended up bad (packers Steelers rams last year, Buffalo today) and say to yourself “maybe it’s time for new leadership”

I was drunk and angry earlier and immediately wanted him fired. I still would prefer a new coach but I’m not blowing my top over it.

Also the Orioles took 2/3 from the Yankees.

If I were present for both the Dolphins and Bills games, I’d have definitely felt the same way, and we all know, wouldn’t have cooled off as quickly as you have here.

Bottom line, the defensive meltdowns are beyond old. It sucks. It’s a terrible, torturous brand of football to be subjected to. And ruins the fun of Lamar’s greatness way too often.

“We have a shot at a wild card right now. But it is not a probability that we're going to win a wild card.” -2022 Trade Deadline

"It's liftoff from here" - after selling on 2022

"We're on a slight upward arc" - Winter Meetings 2022

"I think it's really hard to sit there and chart a course and say, 'We're likely to win the division.'" - Winter Meetings 2022

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#824 hallas

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Posted 02 October 2022 - 10:02 PM


Yup. I’m always suspicious of a coordinator that comes to the NFL from college. Just such a different sport really


He coached under Harbaugh/Wink for years, went to Michigan for 1 year, then came back.

#825 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 02 October 2022 - 10:09 PM

Maybe I’m old school, but Peters demonstrably going after the HC on the sidelines isn’t cool. He wants to play leader, do it on the field, or behind the scenes.
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“We have a shot at a wild card right now. But it is not a probability that we're going to win a wild card.” -2022 Trade Deadline

"It's liftoff from here" - after selling on 2022

"We're on a slight upward arc" - Winter Meetings 2022

"I think it's really hard to sit there and chart a course and say, 'We're likely to win the division.'" - Winter Meetings 2022

Mike Elias


#826 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 02 October 2022 - 10:19 PM

He coached under Harbaugh/Wink for years, went to Michigan for 1 year, then came back.


He certainly hasn’t earned my trust

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#827 hallas

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Posted 02 October 2022 - 10:22 PM

He certainly hasn’t earned my trust


I was excited about him because he got a lot out of Michigan's defense and some people thought his usage of Hutchinson js the reason he was a top draft pick. But holy crap he's been terrible.

#828 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 02 October 2022 - 10:31 PM

I've been saying this for a long time. Analytics work great in gambling and in the stock market. If you consistently play percentages, over the long haul you will be a winner. But the best coaches in football rely on instincts to guide their decisions and use the analytics to help make decsions, they do not simply follow a sheet and take the option with the highest percentage. If it were that easy a laptop program could make every call and render the need for coaches obsolete.


Right. Over the long haul. Problem is you get this one shot, and that’s it. Will they ever be in a tie game on 4th down inside the 5-yard line with somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 minutes, again this year? Much less say 13 more times to see if you really win more than you lose.

Just take the samba lead and put the pressure on the Bills. Instead Harbs likes to put all the pressure on his own guys.
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#829 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 02 October 2022 - 10:34 PM

Rain or not, I'm going to predict opposite week for the Ravens. The defense shows up but the offense sputters. Due for a failed, unnecessary 2 point try at some point that bites them in the end.

Buffalo 17 - Ravens 16


Do I get partial credit?
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#830 mdrunning

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Posted 02 October 2022 - 10:45 PM

I was excited about him because he got a lot out of Michigan's defense and some people thought his usage of Hutchinson js the reason he was a top draft pick. But holy crap he's been terrible.

It's not all on MacDonald, though. You can't make chicken salad out of, well, you know.

 

It all starts with the pass rush and we simply don't have one. We've got two outside guys who--God, love 'em--are both in their 30s and simply aren't what they once were. I guess Oweh was supposed to be that guy, but even though he played decently today, he simply hasn't been. Right now, he just doesn't have the requisite moves to be a consistent pass-rushing threat.

 

We also keep putting money and draft picks into defensive backs. That wasn't MacDonald making those decisions.

 

I remember the late, great Bill Walsh once saying that, "You can scheme your way around mediocre offensive talent, but you can't do it on defense. You have to have guys who can play it." Or words to that effect. And what did Walsh do that first Super Bowl year for San Fran? He drafted Ronnie Lott and Eric Wright for the defensive backfield. Then he went out and acquired veterans such as Hacksaw Reynolds and Fred Dean. Oh, and he also schemed his way through some pretty average offensive talent, save for Montana and Dwight Clark.

 

If Harbaugh's fateful decision on that last drive was a result of his not trusting MacDonald's defense, that doesn't look good for Harbaugh. He's the one who brought in MacDonald.


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#831 cprenegade

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 12:06 AM

It's not all on MacDonald, though. You can't make chicken salad out of, well, you know.

 

It all starts with the pass rush and we simply don't have one. We've got two outside guys who--God, love 'em--are both in their 30s and simply aren't what they once were. I guess Oweh was supposed to be that guy, but even though he played decently today, he simply hasn't been. Right now, he just doesn't have the requisite moves to be a consistent pass-rushing threat.

 

We also keep putting money and draft picks into defensive backs. That wasn't MacDonald making those decisions.

 

I remember the late, great Bill Walsh once saying that, "You can scheme your way around mediocre offensive talent, but you can't do it on defense. You have to have guys who can play it." Or words to that effect. And what did Walsh do that first Super Bowl year for San Fran? He drafted Ronnie Lott and Eric Wright for the defensive backfield. Then he went out and acquired veterans such as Hacksaw Reynolds and Fred Dean. Oh, and he also schemed his way through some pretty average offensive talent, save for Montana and Dwight Clark.

 

If Harbaugh's fateful decision on that last drive was a result of his not trusting MacDonald's defense, that doesn't look good for Harbaugh. He's the one who brought in MacDonald.

 

I agree with just about everything you said on that.  The Ravens have been pouring money into the secondary.  That's like spending all of your money on patches and glues to stop leaks in a dyke instead of spending the money to build up the infrastructure.  It was known that the defensive line was a problem.  And all of the great fail safes on the back end can't solve the problem when the front line can't deliver.

 

But MacDonald looks lost out there.  He looks like the typical successful power conference coaching assistant that gets to the NFL and can't understand why his players aren't so much better than all of the rest.  It's not fair.  I'm just not used to other teams being as good as mine.  

 

But at least it's good to see the Harbaugh connections are still in place.  



#832 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 12:11 AM

We have to give MacDOnald time even if we dont like what we see this year. THey are definitely playing a different style then under WINk and we have to understand some of the players were brought in as WInk style players. Should he be adjusting more. Probably. How do you fix slow, weak, and a  lack of fundamentals. I said it in the game thread multiple times. What is the fix when the opposing OC realizes just get a man the ball with a little space. Whether that is the QB, RB, WR. THe Ravens dont rally to the ball. THey take bad angles. THe dont diagnose and react quickly enough. THey dont wrap up. I get that can be an issue for any team at times but its incredibly common for this defense.



#833 hallas

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 12:58 AM

I agree with just about everything you said on that. The Ravens have been pouring money into the secondary. That's like spending all of your money on patches and glues to stop leaks in a dyke instead of spending the money to build up the infrastructure. It was known that the defensive line was a problem. And all of the great fail safes on the back end can't solve the problem when the front line can't deliver.

But MacDonald looks lost out there. He looks like the typical successful power conference coaching assistant that gets to the NFL and can't understand why his players aren't so much better than all of the rest. It's not fair. I'm just not used to other teams being as good as mine.

But at least it's good to see the Harbaugh connections are still in place.

Why do you invest all this money in the secondary, then run quarters all game with a 4 man rush, despite the fact that none of your linemen can get pressure without numbers?

At least Wink had the right idea: man coverage, single high most of the time, scheme pressure. The issue is that he started to telegraph his blitzes. But it was the right plan for the personnel.

#834 Tranquil1

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 07:44 AM

I have had enough of Harbaugh's stupid in-game decisions. He needs to go.


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#835 bmore_ken

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 07:55 AM

I have had enough of Harbaugh's stupid in-game decisions. He needs to go.

Amen brother. A smart coach takes those three points. The worst that can happen, Buffalo comes back with  a TD. Maybe they  only get a FG and tie it. Either of those scenarios, you're still in the game.


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#836 Biggsy

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 08:05 AM

Why do you invest all this money in the secondary, then run quarters all game with a 4 man rush, despite the fact that none of your linemen can get pressure without numbers?

At least Wink had the right idea: man coverage, single high most of the time, scheme pressure. The issue is that he started to telegraph his blitzes. But it was the right plan for the personnel.


IMO press-man with creative blitz packages, is the best defense to run, as long as you have the personnel to run it. Wink's system is the same as Belichick's. When either have the proper personnel, they can dominate. The difference is Belichick knows when to adjust, and changes things enough to be unpredictable. Wink didn't do that. He played to his tendencies. Then he lost 90%, of his secondary.

The problem with Macdonald is that he likes to run a lot of zone, and he depends on his front 4 to get pressure. He doesn't have the personnel to do that. With his current defensive roster, he is going to have to scheme pressure. He doesn't have Hutchinson and Ojabo here, going against inferior athletes every week. He needs to adjust. If he can't, Ravens are in trouble.

#837 Ravens2006

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 08:19 AM

Chuck Clark is about completely useless in coverage.  On the 3rd-and-3 play to Knox on Buffalo's last drive, you can see Peters pass coverage of Knox off to Clark while he slides over to take the motioning Diggs.  Peters literally turns his head and yells / signals to Clark.  I think it's safe to assume he wasn't suggesting Clark cover Diggs, because Marcus Peters isn't a complete moron.  Clark bumps Knox a little but lets him run by without any attempt to go with him.  Peters meanwhile takes Diggs on the quick in, recognizes where Allen is going, and then drops off to chase the ball.  Meanwhile Williams is in the deep MIDDLE of the field and while he too recognizes and closes quickly, he's too far away to have a good chance to get there.  The Ravens best chance to end Buffalo's last drive, Clark literally lets his man run by and doesn't pursue.

 

If you're covering a man on / outside the hash and know that your only safety left behind you is in the deep middle... what exactly do you think LETTING the receiver run past you is going to result in?  You'd assume a briefly WIDE OPEN receiving target.  On 3rd and 3.  A stop probably results in a BUF punt with two minutes plus left on the clock.  They're not Harbaugh-gambling 4th and 3, tied late, in their own territory.

 

And again, another situation where I wish the coaching staff would use a little more two deep.  Asking Williams alone in the middle to cover sideline to sideline is asking too much.


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#838 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 08:29 AM

It's not all on MacDonald, though. You can't make chicken salad out of, well, you know.

It all starts with the pass rush and we simply don't have one. We've got two outside guys who--God, love 'em--are both in their 30s and simply aren't what they once were. I guess Oweh was supposed to be that guy, but even though he played decently today, he simply hasn't been. Right now, he just doesn't have the requisite moves to be a consistent pass-rushing threat.

We also keep putting money and draft picks into defensive backs. That wasn't MacDonald making those decisions.

I remember the late, great Bill Walsh once saying that, "You can scheme your way around mediocre offensive talent, but you can't do it on defense. You have to have guys who can play it." Or words to that effect. And what did Walsh do that first Super Bowl year for San Fran? He drafted Ronnie Lott and Eric Wright for the defensive backfield. Then he went out and acquired veterans such as Hacksaw Reynolds and Fred Dean. Oh, and he also schemed his way through some pretty average offensive talent, save for Montana and Dwight Clark.

If Harbaugh's fateful decision on that last drive was a result of his not trusting MacDonald's defense, that doesn't look good for Harbaugh. He's the one who brought in MacDonald.


Good point about Bill Walsh. The book Finding the Winning Edge by him was co-written by Brian Billick. I know Billlick was an offensive genius at Minnesota and it didn’t translate here. But it doesn’t come as a surprise that defense was a priority throughout his tenure.

Should be required reading. I don’t recall the chapter that talks about being a slave to a computer who tells you not to settle for a 3 point lead with 4 minutes left.
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#839 Tranquil1

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 10:22 AM

I have long thought that both Billick and Harbaugh are poor coaches. Yet each won a Super Bowl. What was the common denominator in those wins........Ray Lewis. They won because of him and not because the head coaches were great or even good. Those two wins fooled the ownership into keeping both of them beyond what should have been their tenure. Change can be tough and isn't always the answer but I have seen enough of this head coach to know he's a dud.



#840 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 11:36 AM

I have long thought that both Billick and Harbaugh are poor coaches. Yet each won a Super Bowl. What was the common denominator in those wins........Ray Lewis. They won because of him and not because the head coaches were great or even good. Those two wins fooled the ownership into keeping both of them beyond what should have been their tenure. Change can be tough and isn't always the answer but I have seen enough of this head coach to know he's a dud.

While I'm back on the fire Harbaugh train, he's won a lot of games in the last nine going on ten seasons without Ray Lewis here. If winning Super Bowls is the benchmark, then Harbaugh is no worse than Andy Reid, who is going in the HOF one day.


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