81 replies to this topic

[Mackus]

Would like to know what they offered Carter and Walters.  If they are offering all of what they can and the guys turn them down, then no complaints.  If they are offering only what they think they are worth and have bonus pool left to offer more, then big complaint. 

 

That's turning down free talent over a small amount of money that won't (could...but won't) be used anywhere else.  I'm sure that's mostly on the Angeloses for being cheap idiots and no authorizing Elias to spend the 5% overage, but its also a little bit on Elias for not planning his budget better (strategy complaint) or not just giving in and overpaying even if he thinks they are worth less (ego complaint).  And partly for not standing up and calling ownership out on being unwisely cheap (leadership complaint).  He's convinced them to do a lot of things that others haven't been able to do, so he's overall way ahead on this sort of thing, but that doesn't mean its not a little on him for where he can't be convincing enough to convince ownership to go against their nature and not do something stupid in the name of cheapness.

[BobPhelan]

Walters wanted $1.7 million, that was never going to happen.

Mathes was intent on being a two way player and the O’s wanted him to focus on OF.

I think Young just thinks he can drastically improve his stock by going to LSU.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I do wonder if they are getting some NIL money too. The Miami and LSU guys

[Mackus]

I haven't seen what any other 11+ guys have signed for that may have been over $125k, but as of my last count they were $420k in the green in terms of signings / pool plus they have the $847k in taxable range.  They could choose to throw all of that at Walters (or anyof the other 11+ guys) on top of the $125k threshold.

 

So they could offer him a $1.392M bonus (which would cost the Orioles $2.027M including the tax).

 

If the O's offered him that or close to it and he said no, then I have no complaints. 

 

If they are saying he's only worth a $750k bonus max and won't go a penny more, that's making a stupid analysis of the value of their expiring bonus pool.  The question of whether or not he's actually worth that money compared to other guys is moot unless you think the Orioles are gonna turn around and use that $2M to help the team do something else (hardy har har). 

[makoman]

I don't know that you want to just cave and set the precedent that you will hand out $1.4M or whatever's left in your pool+5% to any decent late round fliers that threaten to walk. Walters seems good, but he still appears to be exclusively a reliever and that is one thing the O's seem to have had little trouble developing lately, even before this year. I agree that it'd be dumb to say "$750k and not a penny more," but if they said he's worth $750k, and maybe we'll go higher, but he won't budge off 1.7 or 1.6M then what can you do? 

 

Also, if he's still today asking for $1.7M when simple math makes clear they can't go above $1.392 (no one is giving up draft picks for this guy) then again there's not much you can do. Is he the guy that wanted to play with his brother, likely raising his price? We'll probably never know if they made him turn down 1M or whatever. And I guess we'll see soon enough if they used some of the excess on McLean.

[Mackus]

I don't know that you want to just cave and set the precedent that you will hand out $1.4M or whatever's left in your pool+5% to any decent late round fliers that threaten to walk. Walters seems good, but he still appears to be exclusively a reliever and that is one thing the O's seem to have had little trouble developing lately, even before this year. I agree that it'd be dumb to say "$750k and not a penny more," but if they said he's worth $750k, and maybe we'll go higher, but he won't budge off 1.7 or 1.6M then what can you do? 

 

Also, if he's still today asking for $1.7M when simple math makes clear they can't go above $1.392 (no one is giving up draft picks for this guy) then again there's not much you can do. Is he the guy that wanted to play with his brother, likely raising his price? We'll probably never know if they made him turn down 1M or whatever. And I guess we'll see soon enough if they used some of the excess on McLean.

 

Just had this thought, but it'd be interesting if the team always sprinkled their unused allocation (including the tax range) amongst all the players who signed for slot or under. May not be a way to do it within the rules if the contracts are already signed.  But it would be a cheap way to engender some good will from your draftees and also perhaps a way to convince some guys to go ahead and sign early since they might get a bit more and maybe generate a tiny bit of leverage against some guys holding out for more overslot near the deadline.

[makoman]

This account has no checkmark but appears to cover LSU. I suppose we'll see soon enough.

 

AYS Sports
@AYSSPORTS
Source: Carter Young, New #LSU Shortstop Transfer From Vanderbilt, Still May Be Signing With The Baltimore Orioles Per Source. This Coming Just A Couple Of Days After Announcing He Would Be Joining #LSU This Fall. Young Was Selected In The 17th Round This Past Month.  #AYS
2:12 PM · Aug 1, 2022·Twitter Web App

[TwentyThirtyFive]

This account has no checkmark but appears to cover LSU. I suppose we'll see soon enough.

AYS Sports
@AYSSPORTS
Source: Carter Young, New #LSU Shortstop Transfer From Vanderbilt, Still May Be Signing With The Baltimore Orioles Per Source. This Coming Just A Couple Of Days After Announcing He Would Be Joining #LSU This Fall. Young Was Selected In The 17th Round This Past Month. #AYS
2:12 PM · Aug 1, 2022·Twitter Web App

Interesting. Wonder if things fell through with the OSU guy and they came back to Young

[makoman]

This account has no checkmark but appears to cover LSU. I suppose we'll see soon enough.

 

AYS Sports
@AYSSPORTS
Source: Carter Young, New #LSU Shortstop Transfer From Vanderbilt, Still May Be Signing With The Baltimore Orioles Per Source. This Coming Just A Couple Of Days After Announcing He Would Be Joining #LSU This Fall. Young Was Selected In The 17th Round This Past Month.  #AYS
2:12 PM · Aug 1, 2022·Twitter Web App

Signed for 1.325M. Hat tip to OTV twitter retweeting Geoff Pontes of BA.

 

Now they have no money for McLean probably (or only a little over slot)? So that's probably it.

[Mackus]

Awesome

[Mackus]

I frankly don't care if Carter is actually worth half this or less.  Spending deep into the taxable range is good news for the future.  Hopefully it is more than just a one-off and Elias is given all the bullets possible to add talent.

[BaltBird 24]

Probably would've rather had them throw that money and some toward McLean or Walthers, but glad they spent it. Carter's hit tool is worrisome, but expected to have major flaws as a late round pick.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

What was Young ranked overall ?? Top 200?

[makoman]

The plus side with signing 17 and not 3, if you think they are equivalent (and I'm not saying I do, I have no clue, but that's what they did), is you get another 3 next year.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Hate seeing the two best pitchers they picked go unsigned, but it's less hard to swallow knowing that they at least didn't leave a pile of money sitting on the table.

[Mackus]

Now they have no money for McLean probably (or only a little over slot)? So that's probably it.

 

I think they can still offer him $25k over slot.  But that's it.  More than that and they lose picks. They've spent deep into the 5% territory by signing Carter.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

See no worries. Couldve easily not went back to Young and just took their comp pick next year. Instead they go into the overage to lock up a Top 200 guy

[makoman]

I think they can still offer him $25k over slot.  But that's it.  More than that and they lose picks. They've spent deep into the 5% territory by signing Carter.

Yeah that makes sense and that's a plus sign regardless. That the money won't necessarily wag the dog.

[Mackus]

What was Young ranked overall ?? Top 200?

 

#237 by MLB.com

 

https://forum.baltim...1-20/?p=1019713

[Mackus]

$1.325M bonus is just a bit more than pick #57.

 

$440k (Showalter) is #133