514 replies to this topic

[CantonJester]

Yeah, I'm not sure why they traded Lopez (with two more years of control). That was a trade that Elias should've been blown away by an offer to compel him to execute it. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

Yeah, I'm not sure why they traded Lopez (with two more years of control). That was a trade that Elias should've been blown away by an offer to compel him to execute it.

We should’ve given the Yankees McKenna for Montgomery, lol. Or another stud defensive OF’er. One that can play now.

[Mackus]

2. Assuming we don’t make the playoffs, or just stumble our way into the second wild card (both of which are very probably imo) what’s better? Have Trey sit around and then become a free agent after this year and get nothing, or trade him and get something? Given Lopez had 2 years of arbitration left, sure, I can see the argument of keeping him, but given how good the Orioles have been at developing bullpen arms, I think he’s less of a commodity than we might think.

I absolutely would rather have kept Trey for the rest of this season than get the return we got.

I don't think it's a bad trade and I'm fine with those that would have made the deal (including Elias). But I wouldn't have. The return isn't worth what little delta Trey versus no Trey could make over the remainder of this season. A big part of that is I'm more bearish on anyone recovering from Tommy John (return to current performance) than seems to be the common interpretation. I think it's close to a coin flip. And even if he does recover, he's then 25 having never pitched at AA.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Some of you sound like dude. Let that sink in

[You Play to Win the Game]

Sounds like dude when dude is right.

[Mackus]

I’d push back that it wasn’t a meager return. It was fine relative to the value of relievers, and relievers just aren’t the commodity they used to be, closers especially. I think Cade Povich is a very solid pitching prospect and I’m glad he’s on the Orioles now.

I will concede though that I think the argument for keeping Lopez, given his contract situation, is defensible though, and I get it.

He's an ok prospect and I'm glad to have him, but not at the cost of Lopez (include adding in Rojas and the real long shots).

Povich was rated behind about 10 other pitching prospects in the Minnesota in system by both BA and MLB. Maybe that's a little out-of-date (BA was supposedly recently updated), but how much helium could Povich have with the year he's had? It's been solid, but not an explosion by any means

[BSLBenPalmer]

I absolutely would rather have kept Trey for the rest of this season than get the return we got.

I don't think it's a bad trade and I'm fine with those that would have made the deal (including Elias). But I wouldn't have. The return isn't worth what little delta Trey versus no Trey could make over the remainder of this season. A big part of that is I'm more bearish on anyone recovering from Tommy John (return to current performance) than seems to be the common interpretation. I think it's close to a coin flip. And even if he does recover, he's then 25 having never pitched at AA.

I’m surprised you really think the return for Trey was worse than getting literally nothing. Plenty of pitchers have returned from Tommy John and been fine (I sure hope you’re not dooming the remainder of John Means’ career). Chris Bassit, Walker Buehler, Shane McClanahan, Yu Darvish, Nate Eovaldi, Max Fried, these are all guys who had Tommy John and came back and we’re very successful. It’s very possible.

And the Orioles also got Chayce McDermott. He may not be a top-tier prospect, but he’s also not nothing

[You Play to Win the Game]

And they also lost a middle of the order bat in playoff push. Don’t forget that part.

[Mackus]

I’m surprised you really think the return for Trey was worse than getting literally nothing.

I didn't say that. I said I value Trey's contributions over the final two months here more than the return.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I’m surprised you really think the return for Trey was worse than getting literally nothing. Plenty of pitchers have returned from Tommy John and been fine (I sure hope you’re not dooming the remainder of John Means’ career). Chris Bassit, Walker Buehler, Shane McClanahan, Yu Darvish, Nate Eovaldi, Max Fried, these are all guys who had Tommy John and came back and we’re very successful. It’s very possible.

And the Orioles also got Chayce McDermott. He may not be a top-tier prospect, but he’s also not nothing

Its baffling. 2 guys that slid into 8 and 12 spots for the best farm system in baseball. Know pipeline is higher on them than others but thats for a 2month rental DH

[BSLBenPalmer]

And they also lost a middle of the order bat in playoff push. Don’t forget that part.

Lol Mancini is hitting .235/.320/.329 over the past month, but sure

[Mackus]

I’m surprised you really think Plenty of pitchers have returned from Tommy John and been fine (I sure hope you’re not dooming the remainder of John Means’ career). Chris Bassit, Walker Buehler, Shane McClanahan, Yu Darvish, Nate Eovaldi, Max Fried, these are all guys who had Tommy John and came back and we’re very successful. It’s very possible.

I said I think it's approximately a coin flip that guys return to their previous performance. Not just return to pitch, but pitch as well (or better) than before.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I didn't say that. I said I value Trey's contributions over the final two months here more than the return.

Fair enough. Agree to disagree. 

[BaltBird 24]

People are letting their emotions for Trey cloud their judgement. He's an OK player, but the trade was fine.

[mweb08]

They needed an influx of arms into the system. Just had an exchange with Phelan on here recently in the Top 30 thread about how beyond Rodriguez and Hall there wasnt much upside in our arms.

Besides the pitcher that's about to get TJ (and maybe him too), the other pitchers either fall into the same tier as our next group or two of pitching prospects or barely register at all.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Lol Mancini is hitting .235/.320/.329 over the past month, but sure

Yeah, that’s definitely who he is. Good lord.

[mweb08]

Besides the pitcher that's about to get TJ (and maybe him too), the other pitchers either fall into the same tier as our next group or two of pitching prospects or barely register at all.

Trading Lopez should have brought back a pitcher(sticking with them targeting pitchers) that clearly became the O's 3rd best pitching prospect plus someone in the tier of best of the pitchers they actually got.

[BSLBenPalmer]

Yeah, that’s definitely who he is. Good lord.

Obviously not, you and I both know that. But my point is, Mancini has not been this integral lynchpin to the current playoff run. Has he helped? A bit, sure, but losing him isn’t the difference between continuing our current run and not.

[hallas]

Mancini is defensible to me. They traded a guy with obvious replacements in the minor leagues, and with only 2 months left on his contract, for a projectable starting pitching prospect. Cool.

I have no defense for the Lopez trade. It feels like they took their lone all-star, having a fantastic season, and who still had 2 years of team control, and threw him away. They received nobody of real value, or who projects to one day play a meaningful role on the big league club.

The 2023 and 2024 teams are now worse for this trade. The 2022 team is also worse for this trade. The team in the Years Beyond that, are likely no better because of this trade. It is one of the worst returns I've ever seen as a baseball fan, at least on the surface. If that trade was the best being offered, then don't trade him.

Dealing what amount to superfluous pieces while you can is fine. Lopez was not a superfluous piece. He played a key role on this team, and likely would have next year and beyond. At some point, you need to begin to retain your good players, and build around them. When are they going to begin to do that? The team's window to win will always be in the future if you keep dealing away the present.

 

 

I don't think Povich should be included in the "nobody of real value" category. He was a 40 prospect at the beginning of the season and it seems like the consensus is that he's going to be graded higher this coming offseason due to the uptick in velo.  That said I doubt he's higher than a borderline 45 prospect and I'd expect someone in the ballpark of Johnson, but not injured, for someone like Lopez with 2 extra years of control.  Maybe Elias and the O's scouts have him as closer to 45+, which after including the extra prospects would make this closer to fair value.  But I think that's a stretch.  His velo is up but his performance isn't quite what I'd like to see from a college player in high A.

[85Knight]

Hes playing the odds. Hes taking a solid return on a guy who isnt under contract in '23. Lopez clearly isnt part of his core. We can all think we think the return is inadequate but he's not part of the core and he moved on from him.

Why wouldn't an All Star with 2 more years of control be a part of your core? He really must be a super genius if he knows that Lopez is going to fall off soon. I was all for trading anybody for the right return but this on paper wasn't even close to that. This trade will be scrutinized for a long time around here so we'll see