MVP
Posted 12 July 2022 - 06:23 AM
I didn't see a specific thread for this and would love to get everyone's thoughts on one of the more interesting times of every season. THIS season in particular. So...
OTV
Posted 12 July 2022 - 06:57 AM
MVP
Posted 12 July 2022 - 08:00 AM
- Mancini, Santander, Lopez, Lyles
- anyone else, no untouchables other than the obvious pre-arb guys
Yeah, I'm open to whomever Elias wants to deal, outside of the pre-arb players. I realize this season has been surprising and fun for a fanbase that has longed for it, but we can't be short-sighted when Elias' long-term plan is finally beginning to take shape. I'm curious what sort of return Lopez could get, as he appears to be our best available trade chip. Of course if there are strong offers for Mullins or Hays, I'd imagine those offers could challenge the return for Lopez, if not exceed it. I just don't have a feel on what we should expect.
HOF
Posted 12 July 2022 - 08:31 AM
HOF
Posted 12 July 2022 - 09:09 AM
HOF
Posted 12 July 2022 - 09:11 AM
- Mancini, Santander, Lopez, Lyles
- anyone else, no untouchables other than the obvious pre-arb guys
I saw similar names in articles in both the Sun and the Athletic. Both also mentioned Odor and Tate.
I do not think we will trade all 6, but if it happens, I think a lot of good feelings about this season gets flushed, especially if the return is not for major league ready players.
There seems to be an assumption, that we are going to call these kids up and they are going to be as good or better than guys like Trey and Santander etc. I hope that is right but history tells us it is not.
HOF
Posted 12 July 2022 - 09:52 AM
Looking at the standings, they're 2 out of the last WC position, with only one team above them (Cleveland). It's a tough argument for trading away players. Obviously we don't want to see future contributors unloaded for short term returns. But Bob Phelan is right, you're crapping all over a team that's scratching and clawing right now.
Good news! I saw a dog today.
HOF
Posted 12 July 2022 - 10:07 AM
If the Os remain in contention it makes it harder to trade away anyone. In theory it shouldn't and ELias seems to want to stick the plan but you cant tell me the human element wont make it tougher for him to trade away Trey or Lopez. Especially those two. Santander, Odor I dont think would cause a huge stink
HOF
Posted 12 July 2022 - 10:27 AM
The interesting thing will be if they add looking forward to next year. Unlikely, but possible.
Elias seemed to indicate that it wouldn't be likely due to the fact that prices are always a bit inflated in July vs. the off-season. Makes sense.
Owner
Posted 12 July 2022 - 10:31 AM
Yeah, I'm open to whomever Elias wants to deal, outside of the pre-arb players. I realize this season has been surprising and fun for a fanbase that has longed for it, but we can't be short-sighted when Elias' long-term plan is finally beginning to take shape. I'm curious what sort of return Lopez could get, as he appears to be our best available trade chip. Of course if there are strong offers for Mullins or Hays, I'd imagine those offers could challenge the return for Lopez, if not exceed it. I just don't have a feel on what we should expect.
10 years ago this board was going nuts over the prospects of trading for Headley.
You were pretty steadfast that deadline that the O's needed to be selling, not buying.
Not sure you were wrong then, or wrong now.... but I'm not real excited by the prospects of trading Mancini, Santander, Lopez, or Lyles right now.
You can logically make a case for trading them.
- Mancini, mutual option, thought that he won't accept his... do the O's want to extend?
- Santander... has additional control, but could replace immediately with Stowers.
- Lopez earned his All-Star birth, but relievers volatile...
- Lyles best trait is reliability, and the O's might be looking to improve on him vs. picking up the option...
My general take overall though, is you've spent the last few years building strong system depth, and even with recent and coming graduates... the system is getting a waive of new blood via the draft (and finally internationally as well).
I don't feel the O's have to move guys at this point, just to bring back fliers with potential.
It's very hard for a team that is used to losing, to learn how to win.
The vibes are strong right now. Unless the returns are higher than I expect... I'd be inclined to let the team move forward with these pieces.
- Mancini can be back, they can work a 3 year deal which works for both sides. Not everyone needs to be 24.
- Santander... if you did trade Mancini, could get time at DH.
- Lopez, I'd rather keep his arm and have him available in the pen going forward.
- The year could still fall apart... and if so, it will because the rotation depth is limited. Lyles is doing his job providing innings and taking the ball. With Kremer and Wells also performing; you've got 3 usable arms (Watkins and Voth are also contributing, but I'm skeptical you get through the remainder of the year with them). Behind those 5... you've got Bradish, Hall, Zimmermann... I'm sure each gets starts this year, but without Means and Rodriguez.... you'd really miss the dependability Lyles brings. I also think picking up his option probably makes sense.
HOF
Posted 12 July 2022 - 10:36 AM
OTV
Posted 12 July 2022 - 10:48 AM
MVP
Posted 12 July 2022 - 10:53 AM
10 years ago this board was going nuts over the prospects of trading for Headley.
You were pretty steadfast that deadline that the O's needed to be selling, not buying.
Not sure you were wrong then, or wrong now.... but I'm not real excited by the prospects of trading Mancini, Santander, Lopez, or Lyles right now.
You can logically make a case for trading them.
- Mancini, mutual option, thought that he won't accept his... do the O's want to extend?
- Santander... has additional control, but could replace immediately with Stowers.
- Lopez earned his All-Star birth, but relievers volatile...- Lyles best trait is reliability, and the O's might be looking to improve on him vs. picking up the option...
My general take overall though, is you've spent the last few years building strong system depth, and even with recent and coming graduates... the system is getting a waive of new blood via the draft (and finally internationally as well).
I don't feel the O's have to move guys at this point, just to bring back fliers with potential.
It's very hard for a team that is used to losing, to learn how to win.
The vibes are strong right now. Unless the returns are higher than I expect... I'd be inclined to let the team move forward with these pieces.
- Mancini can be back, they can work a 3 year deal which works for both sides. Not everyone needs to be 24.
- Santander... if you did trade Mancini, could get time at DH.
- Lopez, I'd rather keep his arm and have him available in the pen going forward.- The year could still fall apart... and if so, it will because the rotation depth is limited. Lyles is doing his job providing innings and taking the ball. With Kremer and Wells also performing; you've got 3 usable arms (Watkins and Voth are also contributing, but I'm skeptical you get through the remainder of the year with them). Behind those 5... you've got Bradish, Hall, Zimmermann... I'm sure each gets starts this year, but without Means and Rodriguez.... you'd really miss the dependability Lyles brings. I also think picking up his option probably makes sense.
I'm not sure who is advocating for taking "fliers with potential", but it's not me. Fliers seems akin to a longshot prospect, and we need more than longshot returns, at least for the four mentioned earlier (Mancini, Santander, Lopez, and Lyles.) I would like to deal, but only if the return will be one that brings talent with a decent/good shot at being contributors. Lopez has had a great four month run at a new role, but his track record points to this as an outlier. Could he contribute in a similar fashion moving forward? Sure, but it's an unknown variable and Elias may prefer to cash in that chip. I'm also cool with re-upping with Lyles. Santander is the most likely to go, at least in my view.
To be clear, I do understand wanting to hold onto key contributors like those four, as competing feels really good. Especially to a fanbase starved for it. But, If we reel off 8 straight losses the tone may change here... or perhaps they keep winning and Elias will be in a tougher spot in determining which way to go.
It's getting quite interesting around here, the most in years, and it feels good to see it unfold, whatever Elias decides.
HOF
Posted 12 July 2022 - 11:04 AM
https://twitter.com/...5bY81aq8gGIZyaw
No idea on the validity, but fun to be included in the other side of the rumor game again.
Owner
Posted 12 July 2022 - 11:07 AM
https://twitter.com/...5bY81aq8gGIZyaw
No idea on the validity, but fun to be included in the other side of the rumor game again.
Awesome.
All Star
Posted 12 July 2022 - 11:39 AM
https://twitter.com/...5bY81aq8gGIZyaw
No idea on the validity, but fun to be included in the other side of the rumor game again.
If nothing else, our involvement in this - given our prospect depth - will drive up the cost for other teams.
HOF
Posted 12 July 2022 - 11:44 AM
Elias seemed to indicate that it wouldn't be likely due to the fact that prices are always a bit inflated in July vs. the off-season. Makes sense.
The biggest reason we shouldn't buy yet but I like they are keeping the options open
HOF
Posted 12 July 2022 - 11:44 AM
Let’s start a new thread on this rumor and go crazy like the good ole days! What are Big Bird and Belkast up to these days? Those were some crazy times lol. Elias seems to keep things very tight lipped though in all seriousness. I’m very glad to hear they’re even inquiring about this type of thing.
HOF
Posted 12 July 2022 - 11:46 AM
While the prices are higher in July - the availability can differ. You can’t control when an asset you covet becomes available. Maybe their analytics or whatever will draw them to some of the guys that are available this July. It could be interesting. I’m not expecting it to be though.
HOF
Posted 12 July 2022 - 12:10 PM
Let’s start a new thread on this rumor and go crazy like the good ole days! What are Old Bird and Belkast up to these days? Those were some crazy times lol. Elias seems to keep things very tight lipped though in all seriousness. I’m very glad to hear they’re even inquiring about this type of thing.
WOW!
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