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2023 NFL Draft General


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#21 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 25 January 2023 - 03:39 PM

They arent rolling with Purdy in SF

 

Will be interesting to see. I'm not sure they don't win these next two games. 
A lot of people do think maybe Brady makes his way out there, back to his home for one last year. 
We will see. 

Anyway, I digress...  back to Ravens Draft talk...

 

 

Kiper Mock Draft Jan. 25th: 

 

 Baltimore Ravens

Quentin Johnston, WR, TCU

Offensive coordinator Greg Roman is out, and quarterback Lamar Jackson's future with the Ravens is uncertain after he and the team haven't been able to agree to a new contract. Coach John Harbaugh isn't used to this sort of chaos. Still, I think Jackson will be back -- potentially on the franchise tag -- in which case he needs someone to catch passes. Baltimore still hasn't gotten its receiving corps right; it ranked last in the league in receiving yards by wideouts (1,517). Rashod Bateman, a first-rounder in 2021 who has struggled with injuries, has just three touchdowns in 18 career games.

Johnston could help the Ravens stretch the field. He averaged 17.8 yards per catch for the Horned Frogs this season. At 6-4, he's still developing as a route runner, and he's a physical mismatch once he gets his body into defensive backs and leaps for the ball. Jackson could use Johnston's length in the red zone.



#22 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 25 January 2023 - 03:48 PM

Will be interesting to see. I'm not sure they don't win these next two games. 
A lot of people do think maybe Brady makes his way out there, back to his home for one last year. 
We will see. 

Anyway, I digress...  back to Ravens Draft talk...

 

 

Kiper Mock Draft Jan. 25th: 

 

 Baltimore Ravens

Quentin Johnston, WR, TCU

Offensive coordinator Greg Roman is out, and quarterback Lamar Jackson's future with the Ravens is uncertain after he and the team haven't been able to agree to a new contract. Coach John Harbaugh isn't used to this sort of chaos. Still, I think Jackson will be back -- potentially on the franchise tag -- in which case he needs someone to catch passes. Baltimore still hasn't gotten its receiving corps right; it ranked last in the league in receiving yards by wideouts (1,517). Rashod Bateman, a first-rounder in 2021 who has struggled with injuries, has just three touchdowns in 18 career games.

Johnston could help the Ravens stretch the field. He averaged 17.8 yards per catch for the Horned Frogs this season. At 6-4, he's still developing as a route runner, and he's a physical mismatch once he gets his body into defensive backs and leaps for the ball. Jackson could use Johnston's length in the red zone.

I didnt consider an option other than Purdy. Yes, there is some chance they go with a FA QB and trade Lance. Just dont see them handing Purdy the keys. 



#23 Bmore Irish

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Posted 25 January 2023 - 03:53 PM

I think it is a tremendous disservice to Purdy to say that bes only having success because of Shanahan. He's a good football player.

7-0, 14 tds to 2 into, against some very good competition and in playoff settings. Possibly going to be the rookie of the year. He has more playoff wins than Lamar. He's probably the starter next year.

Don't tell me that's only Shanahan.


That's where you're going with this conversation about the Ravens prospects of drafting a QB? OK.

 

Yeah, Purdy is playing well. Much better than you'd expect from the last pick in the draft. And playing in Shanahan's offense with all those weapons certainly makes his job easier. Purdy is in a great situation.

 

What Purdy playing well as a 7th rounder has to do with the Ravens potentially taking a shot at a 1st round QB in this particular draft, I'm not sure. Maybe they shouldn't reach for a QB who's a project? See how the draft falls to them? I don't know. I wonder how the 49ers are feeling now about all the draft capital they spent to get Trey Lance?



#24 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 25 January 2023 - 04:01 PM


That's where you're going with this conversation about the Ravens prospects of drafting a QB? OK.

 

Yeah, Purdy is playing well. Much better than you'd expect from the last pick in the draft. And playing in Shanahan's offense with all those weapons certainly makes his job easier. Purdy is in a great situation.

 

What Purdy playing well as a 7th rounder has to do with the Ravens potentially taking a shot at a 1st round QB in this particular draft, I'm not sure. Maybe they shouldn't reach for a QB who's a project? See how the draft falls to them? I don't know. I wonder how the 49ers are feeling now about all the draft capital they spent to get Trey Lance?

These guys that are in the draft the next guy now or next year camp want to throw darts. Thats their plan. Throw darts while pointing out all the darts that hit to varying disagrees. They wont tell you bout the incredibly higher number of darts that were thrown and missed



#25 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 25 January 2023 - 05:13 PM

No way a talent like Johnston slides to us with the way teams run on WR’s early now, is there? Love that kid. Would be a game changer.
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#26 makoman

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Posted 25 January 2023 - 05:19 PM

No way a talent like Johnston slides to us with the way teams run on WR’s early now, is there? Love that kid. Would be a game changer.

A lot of people have him as the top WR and a top 10 pick, so I'm guessing no way. Things can change though.



#27 Slidemaster

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Posted 25 January 2023 - 05:59 PM


That's where you're going with this conversation about the Ravens prospects of drafting a QB? OK.

Yeah, Purdy is playing well. Much better than you'd expect from the last pick in the draft. And playing in Shanahan's offense with all those weapons certainly makes his job easier. Purdy is in a great situation.

What Purdy playing well as a 7th rounder has to do with the Ravens potentially taking a shot at a 1st round QB in this particular draft, I'm not sure. Maybe they shouldn't reach for a QB who's a project? See how the draft falls to them? I don't know. I wonder how the 49ers are feeling now about all the draft capital they spent to get Trey Lance?

You can't knock a team's pick if the guy gets flattened by injuries. Nobody can predict that.

My point is only that draft position doesn't always equate to production and performance. The assumption that a guy will suck because he has flaws that may drop him to lower in the first round or even out of the first round doesn't always pan out, and you're acting like it's a foregone conclusion. I know you're trying to explain away Purdy's performance with his coach and situation, but *lots* of guys have good situations and can't capitalize on them. If the 2022 draft were repicked tomorrow, Purdy would be a first rounders without a doubt.

Ultimately, I trust the Ravens to draft the right guy at QB. I don't know who that is any more than you do, but I trust their judgement, regardless of what round they took him in. Boller not withstanding, they've gotten very good value out of their QB draft picks relative to their draft position and investment.

#28 Slidemaster

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Posted 25 January 2023 - 06:02 PM

These guys that are in the draft the next guy now or next year camp want to throw darts. Thats their plan. Throw darts while pointing out all the darts that hit to varying disagrees. They wont tell you bout the incredibly higher number of darts that were thrown and missed


If it were you or me making the pick, that's throwing darts. The Ravens know more about these kids than any of us ever will. It's not an exact science, but I trust them to take the right guy.

#29 makoman

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Posted 25 January 2023 - 06:14 PM

It's all about probabilities. Sure Mr. Irrelevant could come in and go 7-0. Gus Frerotte can have a better career as a 7th rounder than the 3rd pick of the same draft by the same team. But it's more likely those guys never get an NFL snap. A 3rd rounder is more likely Chris Redman than Russel Wilson, a 6th Trace McSorely not Tom Brady. Lately it seems like you've got a 50-50 shot for a 1st round QB, even with a top 5 pick. So yeah it's tough to give up a guy who seems to have an MVP ceiling and an above average QB floor, even if his star has dimmed a bit lately, for a coin flip that you'll be doing this again in 3 years. I don't think either side is a bunch of idiots, but there's no easy answer. 


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#30 Slidemaster

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Posted 25 January 2023 - 06:22 PM

It's all about probabilities. Sure Mr. Irrelevant could come in and go 7-0. Gus Frerotte can have a better career as a 7th rounder than the 3rd pick of the same draft by the same team. But it's more likely those guys never get an NFL snap. A 3rd rounder is more likely Chris Redman than Russel Wilson, a 6th Trace McSorely not Tom Brady. Lately it seems like you've got a 50-50 shot for a 1st round QB, even with a top 5 pick. So yeah it's tough to give up a guy who seems to have an MVP ceiling and an above average QB floor, even if his star has dimmed a bit lately, for a coin flip that you'll be doing this again in 3 years. I don't think either side is a bunch of idiots, but there's no easy answer.


If the choice were Lamar Jackson versus a new pick, the choice is obviously Lamar jackson. However, when it's Lamar Jackson and 50+ million a year fully guaranteed versus a new pick on a 5 year rookie deal, it becomes a lot more difficult to sign off on.

#31 makoman

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Posted 25 January 2023 - 06:29 PM

If the choice were Lamar Jackson versus a new pick, the choice is obviously Lamar jackson. However, when it's Lamar Jackson and 50+ million a year fully guaranteed versus a new pick on a 5 year rookie deal, it becomes a lot more difficult to sign off on.

Of course. Hitting on a QB on a rookie deal seems like the best path for success in the league. If I knew the hit rate was like 80% I'm more likely in that camp. 50-50 is tough. Lamar minus tons of cap is also tough. It only makes sense if the QB is special--paying a Carr 40M or whatever isn't worth it. I still think Lamar can be special, but if you don't then you have to trade him to someone who does.



#32 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 25 January 2023 - 06:33 PM

He was special as recently as the first few weeks of this past season. It’s about knowing you can get that 75% of your games, and in January when you’re paying him that. I don’t think that’s the case. Not anymore. I’m making a strong stance because I feel like I’m in the minority, but despite my takes here, I would jump right back on board if he is back. It really isn’t hard to be a Lamar Jackson fan, for the most part. I don’t think he did well with all the contract pressure this year, on multiple fronts. And that’s also concerning to me. I’ll support whatever the Ravens do.
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#33 Bmore Irish

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Posted 26 January 2023 - 12:37 AM

You can't knock a team's pick if the guy gets flattened by injuries. Nobody can predict that.

My point is only that draft position doesn't always equate to production and performance. The assumption that a guy will suck because he has flaws that may drop him to lower in the first round or even out of the first round doesn't always pan out, and you're acting like it's a foregone conclusion. I know you're trying to explain away Purdy's performance with his coach and situation, but *lots* of guys have good situations and can't capitalize on them. If the 2022 draft were repicked tomorrow, Purdy would be a first rounders without a doubt.

Ultimately, I trust the Ravens to draft the right guy at QB. I don't know who that is any more than you do, but I trust their judgement, regardless of what round they took him in. Boller not withstanding, they've gotten very good value out of their QB draft picks relative to their draft position and investment.

I don't know why I keep smashing my head against this brick wall, because it's surely not worth it.

 

QBs are pretty regularly overdrafted due to positional value and scarcity, more so than other positions. It's basically baked into their evaluations at this point. I think most reasonable people can recognize that. Teams regularly show they're willing to take a chance on a QB, and pay a steep price to do it, even if they're not as good or polished at their position as other players.

 

I don't think the Ravens should or would reach to draft Will Levis in the top 10, but might otherwise consider it in the very unlikely event he fell further down the draft board. This isn't exactly a hot take. In fact, I think the way they've run their front office and drafts over the years backs that up. But based on where Will Levis is projected to be drafted, and how other QB needy franchises will value him, I don't see it happening. Even more so with Anthony Richardson.

 

And I don't know what you're trying to accomplish with your Brock Purdy crusade here, but recognition of the coaching staff and supporting cast he's working with isn't "explaining away" his success. They're major contributing factors, period. Kyle Shanahan being up for COTY doesn't have to be a slight to Brock Purdy. I don't know why you and others on this forum insist on these discussions being so black and white.



#34 Slidemaster

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Posted 26 January 2023 - 01:47 AM

I don't know why I keep smashing my head against this brick wall, because it's surely not worth it.

QBs are pretty regularly overdrafted due to positional value and scarcity, more so than other positions. It's basically baked into their evaluations at this point. I think most reasonable people can recognize that. Teams regularly show they're willing to take a chance on a QB, and pay a steep price to do it, even if they're not as good or polished at their position as other players.

I don't think the Ravens should or would reach to draft Will Levis in the top 10, but might otherwise consider it in the very unlikely event he fell further down the draft board. This isn't exactly a hot take. In fact, I think the way they've run their front office and drafts over the years backs that up. But based on where Will Levis is projected to be drafted, and how other QB needy franchises will value him, I don't see it happening. Even more so with Anthony Richardson.

And I don't know what you're trying to accomplish with your Brock Purdy crusade here, but recognition of the coaching staff and supporting cast he's working with isn't "explaining away" his success. They're major contributing factors, period. Kyle Shanahan being up for COTY doesn't have to be a slight to Brock Purdy. I don't know why you and others on this forum insist on these discussions being so black and white.


Nobody is making anything black and white. In fact, the only black and white comment anywhere in this exchange is the (apparent) certainty that you have that Levis and Richardson will be overdrafted, (almost) certain busts.

I'm not on a "Brock Purdy Crusade," as you said, but it's genuinely weird that you appear to give most of the credit to Shanahan and not to the guy who is actually making the throws. Your first response to him even bring brought up was to credit his coach and system. What he's doing is pretty extraordinary no matter who his coach is. Being quick to credit his coach and system and only (begrudgingly) admitting that he's playing "well," is minimizing what he's doing. It just is.

Anyway, the point is that you just never know what these guys are going to be. It's easy to say in hindsight that you could expect it with Jackson and Hurts because of their college resumes, but lots of people who's job it was to evaluate talent thought they shouldn't even play the position in the pros, and both are likely to have been picked after Levis or Richardson will be. Some QBs in the draft might go a little higher than another player of similar talent would at a less scarce position, but it's not like teams are leaping 2 rounds early for a fringe NFL player because they're so desperate to get it right. We also notice those that bust more, because it's such a high profile position.

I have confidence that if the Ravens go a route that requires a first round QB, that they'll get it right.

#35 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 31 January 2023 - 09:44 AM

CBS Sports: 2023 NFL Mock Draft: Four quarterbacks go in top 10, Jets look elsewhere for franchise passer

https://www.cbssport...anchise-passer/



#36 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 02 February 2023 - 09:38 AM

The Ringer: The Ringer’s 2023 NFL Draft Big Board



#37 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 16 February 2023 - 02:21 PM

Ravens.com: Mock Draft Roundup 4.0: A Surprising Alternative Emerges

https://www.baltimor...GEkpvRRa88lCbLk



#38 Hooded Viper

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Posted 17 February 2023 - 08:10 AM

Would love to add Quentin Johnson to a room of Bateman, Robinson (fully expect him back at a cheap deal) and Duvernay.  Throw in a proven veteran via trade (Jeudy, Hopkins, Cooks) and let Lamar (fully expect him back despite all the angst going on this board) go to work in Monken's updated system.  Picking Bijan Robinson is completely not happening with JK back to full speed and a healthy Gus Bus (expect him to get a reworked/extended deal).



#39 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 17 February 2023 - 08:57 AM

Robinson isnt happening because he will be long gone. Would take him in a heartbeat but he likely bumps up into the Top 10 by draft night.

#40 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 17 February 2023 - 09:00 AM

Also pass on Hopkins. Expensive and has hit 30 yrs old. Will be 31 by Sept. Some WRs can age fairly gracefully into their 30s but go lookn at all the guys who start a pretty steep drop off around 30. Hopkins already is dealing with more injuries. Add on top the threat of suspension again and its a pass.
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