5723 replies to this topic

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I believe the odds on Lamar leaving were "less than one percent" when I said he was finished in Baltimore on 12/22...Mackus liked the post.

First the Orioles offense is not OK and Lamar having played his last game in Baltimore.

I demand an apology.

NMStradamus strikes again.

Just like claiming the offense would be bottom 5 you are patting your back too soon. I get it. You wanna get in that killshot but today aint the day. Sean be the one out here giving the throat slash sign on the court when there is still time on the clock.

[makoman]

Burrow. We will talk about what Burrow does. Get out of here with Hurts and Herbert. There are different levels to this game.

They are all on a similar enough tier. I know you hate on him all the time, but Hurts just went 14-1 and went to the Super Bowl with a year that was not Lamar's 2019, but was in the same realm and something Lamar hasn't touched since. In 2023 I'm not entirely sure who the league would prefer...I am a huge Lamar apologist but 2019 gets further away every day.

[NewMarketSean]

Just like claiming the offense would be bottom 5 you are patting your back too soon. I get it. You wanna get in that killshot but today aint the day. Sean be the one out here giving the throat slash sign on the court when there is still time on the clock.

[PrimeTime]

They are all on a similar enough tier. I know you hate on him all the time, but Hurts just went 14-1 and went to the Super Bowl with a year that was not Lamar's 2019, but was in the same realm and something Lamar hasn't touched since. In 2023 I'm not entirely sure who the league would prefer...I am a huge Lamar apologist but 2019 gets further away every day.

 

Burrow and Herbert are very comparable. The big difference is Burrow has played more playoff games but it's not like Herbert alone choked away a multi touchdown lead and cost himself a chance to play more postseason games.

 

Player Comparison: Joe Burrow vs. Justin Herbert | Stathead.com

 

Burrow has better overall passing numbers than Hurts in his career but Hurts 2022 passing numbers are very comparable to Burrow's 2022 numbers. And Burrow will never be the runner that Hurts is.

 

Career numbers: Player Comparison: Joe Burrow vs. Jalen Hurts | Stathead.com

 

2022 numbers: Player Comparison: Joe Burrow vs. Jalen Hurts | Stathead.com

[CantonJester]

Just like claiming the offense would be bottom 5 you are patting your back too soon. I get it. You wanna get in that killshot but today aint the day. Sean be the one out here giving the throat slash sign on the court when there is still time on the clock.

 

How about a nice warm glass of shut the hell up!?!

[NewMarketSean]

How about a nice warm glass of shut the hell up!?!

That's what bottom 3rd MLB offenses get.

[Mackus]

When could they realistically trade him after an offer sheet. I agree this is a big deal. This trade request. I still doubt bridges have been burned. We will see though.

 

Do you mean an offer sheet or the tender?

 

The tender is what Lamar actually signs to be on the tag.  It guarantees his tag salary, but then he has to report to mandatory things.  But he has to sign that tender before he can sign an offer sheet elsewhere or be traded.  If Lamar signs the tender, the Ravens can trade him for more (or less) than the two draft picks that come if he leaves on the tag.  The new team takes over the cap hit for the tag, and then would presumably reach an extension with Lamar in short order.

 

If Lamar signs an offer sheet with another team, the Ravens can match and then they just have him for those contract terms.  They can trade him immediately, but then usual cap rules apply.  Any signing bonus that was already paid but not yet accounted on the cap, come due at the time of the trade.  So if the offer sheet is a normal contract with a big bonus, then the Ravens wouldn't be trading Lamar after matching, they'd just let him walk.  This is the same reason you've never seen a sign-and-trade in the NFL.  The old team takes a big dead money hit.  If the offer sheet is all salary and future roster bonuses with no upfront signing bonus, then there is no cap penalty for a trade and the Ravens could do a legit sign-and-trade.

[jamesdean]

Yup. If he did he would find a way to make it work out. He demanded a trade on March 2nd? Seriously? He knew going into the offseason that he was done in Baltimore.

Which is what I've been asking for weeks.  Were we sure he even wanted to still play here?  Well, I think now we have a definitive answer and it's one that hardly surprises me.  What it also does for me is now that I know he wants out, him not suiting up for the play-off game begins to take on a special kind of stench.  I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at the time but now I'm convinced he had no intention of playing another game this year once he got hurt.  It just wasn't worth it to him both physically and emotionally.  Can they retract the tag?  Can they say to Lamar, "so you want out?  Ok, we'll try to get you somewhere else but if it doesn't work out, we don't want you here either.  Go, sit out 2023."  Can the Ravens do that and not owe him a cent?  I have a feeling they can't do that but man, it would be sweet retribution, wouldn't it? 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Do you mean an offer sheet or the tender?

The tender is what Lamar actually signs to be on the tag. It guarantees his tag salary, but then he has to report to mandatory things. But he has to sign that tender before he can sign an offer sheet elsewhere or be traded. If Lamar signs the tender, the Ravens can trade him for more (or less) than the two draft picks that come if he leaves on the tag. The new team takes over the cap hit for the tag, and then would presumably reach an extension with Lamar in short order.

If Lamar signs an offer sheet with another team, the Ravens can match and then they just have him for those contract terms. They can trade him immediately, but then usual cap rules apply. Any signing bonus that was already paid but not yet accounted on the cap, come due at the time of the trade. So if the offer sheet is a normal contract with a big bonus, then the Ravens wouldn't be trading Lamar after matching, they'd just let him walk. This is the same reason you've never seen a sign-and-trade in the NFL. The old team takes a big dead money hit. If the offer sheet is all salary and future roster bonuses with no upfront signing bonus, then there is no cap penalty for a trade and the Ravens could do a legit sign-and-trade.

Good stuff. I was saying he signs the offer sheet the Ravens match and then could deal him. You explained why thats not really feasible.

[Mackus]

I believe the odds on Lamar leaving were "less than one percent" when I said he was finished in Baltimore on 12/22...Mackus liked the post.

 

First the Orioles offense is not OK and Lamar having played his last game in Baltimore.

 

I demand an apology.

 

NMStradamus strikes again.

 

I'd have bet a lot of beer that Lamar hadn't played his last down in Baltimore at that point.  Still think the odds of him returning are a lot higher than the emotional bleakness of the process right now.

 

And I'll say again, that I'd still much prefer just giving him what he wants to stay here over any of the alternatives.  Its bad negotiating, no doubt, to give him substantially more than he can get any place else.  But at some point even if you win the negotiation you may lose the player.  If I have to choose between having him a 5/$235M all guaranteed or him leaving for two #1s or less, I'm paying the money, even if I know that nobody else is guaranteeing more than half the deal.  I'll be thrilled if he's back for less than that, and content even if he's back on the tag and willing to play, but him signed long-term if the most important thing.  Saving a bit on the deal would be great, but to me its not worth risking souring the relationship over.  Hoping its not too late at this point, I think a big contract similar to what the team has already offered could still mend a lot of wounds, but also could see Lamar being bitter about it and moving on even for less money elsewhere.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I'd have bet a lot of beer that Lamar hadn't played his last down in Baltimore at that point.  Still think the odds of him returning are a lot higher than the emotional bleakness of the process right now.

 

And I'll say again, that I'd still much prefer just giving him what he wants to stay here over any of the alternatives.  Its bad negotiating, no doubt, to give him substantially more than he can get any place else.  But at some point even if you win the negotiation you may lose the player.  If I have to choose between having him a 5/$235M all guaranteed or him leaving for two #1s or less, I'm paying the money, even if I know that nobody else is guaranteeing more than half the deal.  I'll be thrilled if he's back for less than that, and content even if he's back on the tag and willing to play, but him signed long-term if the most important thing.  Saving a bit on the deal would be great, but to me its not worth risking souring the relationship over.  Hoping its not too late at this point, I think a big contract similar to what the team has already offered could still mend a lot of wounds, but also could see Lamar being bitter about it and moving on even for less money elsewhere.

 

If I were the Ravens, I'd pull any existing offer. 

[Mackus]

Can they retract the tag? Can they say to Lamar, "so you want out? Ok, we'll try to get you somewhere else but if it doesn't work out, we don't want you here either. Go, sit out 2023." Can the Ravens do that and not owe him a cent? I have a feeling they can't do that but man, it would be sweet retribution, wouldn't it?

Yes. Ravens can rescind the tag up until the time he signs it. Then he's a free agent.

[NewMarketSean]

Have to wonder what the behind the scenes stuff when he went down. Did team urge him to play before he was ready? We know the strength and conditioning department was a joke. Maybe LJ feels the team didn't take care of him as they should have, and wanted him to play while he was still not able.

 

I think this is about much more than money...it's also about respect and lack of care shown toward the players. If it were just money, he wouldn't have demanded a trade.

[You Play to Win the Game]

If I were the Ravens, I'd pull any existing offer.

Yeah. Thank God Mackus isn’t the GM. We’d have Lamar but would have to sell off everything else, including some fans probably, to get the cap to work. There are no limits. No red lines. No negotiation really for Lamar’s biggest fans. Just a blank check.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Interesting that he apparently made his request before he was allowed to speak with other teams. Obviously nothing that has (or hasn't) happened since he was allowed to talk to other teams has changed his mind about what he thinks his value is.

 

With yet another layer added to this drama, I don't see how he can possibly be part of the organization going forward. I think it's now a question of how the Lamar Jackson era ends, not if.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Yes. Ravens can rescind the tag up until the time he signs it. Then he's a free agent.

Didnt know this. Then yeah no torpedoing anything. People should be banned for using that language. Ravens have an out and have always had one.


This isnt me advocating for recinding but it is me saying you cant put the Ravens lack of doing anything further in FA or with their cap space on Lamar.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Yeah. Thank God Mackus isn’t the GM. We’d have Lamar but would have to sell off everything else, including some fans probably, to get the cap to work. There are no limits. No red lines. No negotiation really for Lamar’s biggest fans. Just a blank check.

Lol. Hes not wrong in what he said. We are in a bad spot right now. Mack is one of the only.people who understands how hard it is to find difference making QB play. Thats what it comes down to.

[Mike in STL]

The problem is the roster is good enough otherwise that even with a mediocre QB at the helm, we're a 7 to 10 win football team still. Not nearly bad enough to get a high enough draft pick to make a difference. 

Yeah, but you can always trade up to that pick, or maybe your guy is there at 10, 15, 20? Lamar was a second rounder if the Ravens didn't jump up.

[Slidemaster]

Didnt know this. Then yeah no torpeoing anything. People should be banned for using that language. Ravens have an out and have always had one.


This isnt me advocating for recinding but it is me saying you cant put the Ravens lack of doing anything further in FA or with their cap space on Lamar.

Banned?

LOL

[weird-O]

Didnt know this. Then yeah no torpeoing anything. People should be banned for using that language. Ravens have an out and have always had one.


This isnt me advocating for recinding but it is me saying you cant put the Ravens lack of doing anything further in FA or with their cap space on Lamar.

If I understand how franchise tags work, and that's a big IF. The full amount of the tag counts against the cap. Without knowing otherwise, we assume the Ravens are planning for LJ to be their starting QB this upcoming season. If this is all correct, that does limit their cap space and other possible moves. The thing I don't know, is whether or not that cap hit starts immediately after they designated him under the tag, the way another team takes a cap hit after submitting an offer sheet.