Photo

Lamar - Extension?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
5723 replies to this topic

#5261 makoman

makoman

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,352 posts

Posted 27 March 2023 - 01:52 PM

If I understand how franchise tags work, and that's a big IF. The full amount of the tag counts against the cap. Without knowing otherwise, we assume the Ravens are planning for LJ to be their starting QB this upcoming season. If this is all correct, that does limit their cap space and other possible moves. The thing I don't know, is whether or not that cap hit starts immediately after they designated him under the tag, the way another team takes a cap hit after submitting an offer sheet.  

Yes, Lamar is counting 32M against the cap today.



#5262 weird-O

weird-O

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,185 posts
  • LocationI'm here from downtown, I'm here from Mitch and Murray.

Posted 27 March 2023 - 01:54 PM

Yes, Lamar is counting 32M against the cap today.

Thanks for clarifying. So it's not monopoly money, they now have $32M less cap space. I'd say that limits what they can do.


Good news! I saw a dog today.


#5263 Slidemaster

Slidemaster

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,839 posts

Posted 27 March 2023 - 01:54 PM

I have to believe at this point that the Ravens have been actively looking for trade partners, and there is nobody who wants him. I think all of this bluster coming out of Lamar's camp is out of desperation that apparently, nobody in the NFL is interested in his services at the price he's asking. Looks like he bet on himself and lost, yet again. Seems like a trend.

I think other NFL GMS see what many of us see. They see a whiny, delusional player who is the only one in the room who still thinks he's worth what he's asking, with questions about his durability, and about his ability, or willingness to play when he's not 100% in the most important games of the season.

That isn't a guy that you give a blank check to. That isn't a guy you give up two firsts for, in addition to 230+ guaranteed million dollars.
  • jamesdean and JStruds like this

#5264 makoman

makoman

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,352 posts

Posted 27 March 2023 - 01:54 PM

If I were the Ravens, I'd pull any existing offer. 

I would consider it but a lot of it depends on how broken this has really been behind the scenes. I would also absolutely be ready to tag him 3 years for ~127M and let him find himself an offer sheet, you at least have to get the two firsts out of this. He wants to be traded yet he could leave any time if he finds something at a higher value than the Ravens see him at, so let him do the work and find it. If he wants to sit out fine, take the cap credit. In the meantime do your best to find another QB. Probably not going to get one this year though.

 

This team has never been that petty though.


  • russsnyder likes this

#5265 BSLMikeLowe

BSLMikeLowe

    CFB Analyst

  • Moderators
  • 19,278 posts
  • LocationPortland, Oregon

Posted 27 March 2023 - 01:55 PM

If I understand how franchise tags work, and that's a big IF. The full amount of the tag counts against the cap. Without knowing otherwise, we assume the Ravens are planning for LJ to be their starting QB this upcoming season. If this is all correct, that does limit their cap space and other possible moves. The thing I don't know, is whether or not that cap hit starts immediately after they designated him under the tag, the way another team takes a cap hit after submitting an offer sheet.  

 

I believe it officially went on their cap as soon as the new league year began, as they still had to make some cuts and restructures up to then to be compliant.



#5266 weird-O

weird-O

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,185 posts
  • LocationI'm here from downtown, I'm here from Mitch and Murray.

Posted 27 March 2023 - 01:55 PM

Didnt know this. Then yeah no torpedoing anything. People should be banned for using that language. Ravens have an out and have always had one.


This isnt me advocating for recinding but it is me saying you cant put the Ravens lack of doing anything further in FA or with their cap space on Lamar.

Also, the "out" is to let him walk. How is that a smart route to take?


Good news! I saw a dog today.


#5267 Slidemaster

Slidemaster

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,839 posts

Posted 27 March 2023 - 01:57 PM


Also, the "out" is to let him walk. How is that a smart route to take?


Because he isn't a fan of the Ravens. He's a fan of Lamar.

#5268 TwentyThirtyFive

TwentyThirtyFive

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,311 posts

Posted 27 March 2023 - 01:59 PM

I have to believe at this point that the Ravens have been actively looking for trade partners, and there is nobody who wants him. I think all of this bluster coming out of Lamar's camp is out of desperation that apparently, nobody in the NFL is interested in his services at the price he's asking. Looks like he bet on himself and lost, yet again. Seems like a trend.

I think other NFL GMS see what many of us see. They see a whiny, delusional player who is the only one in the room who still thinks he's worth what he's asking, with questions about his durability, and about his ability, or willingness to play when he's not 100% in the most important games of the season.

That isn't a guy that you give a blank check to. That isn't a guy you give up two firsts for, in addition to 230+ guaranteed million dollars.

Yes no one wants him. He will never play a down in the NFL again. You dont think before you post.

#5269 Mackus

Mackus

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 60,426 posts

Posted 27 March 2023 - 01:59 PM


Yeah. Thank God Mackus isn’t the GM. We’d have Lamar but would have to sell off everything else, including some fans probably, to get the cap to work. There are no limits. No red lines. No negotiation really for Lamar’s biggest fans. Just a blank check.

Come on, you know the contract you're talking about and the one I'm talking about are barely different capwise. Is $42M vs $47M APY that different? I'm willing to guarantee it, which takes on back end risk. It's not any more expensive against the cap by doing that though. Just no escape plan.

I get wanting to win the negotiation and get him back for as cheap a possible. I do too, the save money can help do other things. But the savings aren't (weren't?) worth the risk of souring the relationship and forcing us down the path of a trade or two pick tag return.

#5270 Slidemaster

Slidemaster

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,839 posts

Posted 27 March 2023 - 02:01 PM


Yes no one wants him. He will never play a down in the NFL again. You dont think before you post.


My literal words were that nobody wants him at the price he's asking. Do you read? Do you know how to read?

#5271 weird-O

weird-O

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,185 posts
  • LocationI'm here from downtown, I'm here from Mitch and Murray.

Posted 27 March 2023 - 02:03 PM

I have to believe at this point that the Ravens have been actively looking for trade partners, and there is nobody who wants him. I think all of this bluster coming out of Lamar's camp is out of desperation that apparently, nobody in the NFL is interested in his services at the price he's asking. Looks like he bet on himself and lost, yet again. Seems like a trend.

I think other NFL GMS see what many of us see. They see a whiny, delusional player who is the only one in the room who still thinks he's worth what he's asking, with questions about his durability, and about his ability, or willingness to play when he's not 100% in the most important games of the season.

That isn't a guy that you give a blank check to. That isn't a guy you give up two firsts for, in addition to 230+ guaranteed million dollars.

I guess we'll see what the other teams really think, now that they have some reassurance that an offer won't be matched, since LJ wants out of Baltimore. Giving up those two picks seems like an easy way to get a superstar QB. The injury thing can't be totally ignored. But injuries are a part of football, so it can't be the only reason to shy away. As for the possibility that he could have, but didn't play, in the post season game, I can understand that. It means he can no longer call himself a "team player". But I can understand his prioritizing his career/earning potential.  


Good news! I saw a dog today.


#5272 weird-O

weird-O

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,185 posts
  • LocationI'm here from downtown, I'm here from Mitch and Murray.

Posted 27 March 2023 - 02:04 PM

Because he isn't a fan of the Ravens. He's a fan of Lamar.

Oh, he's made that loud and clear. 


Good news! I saw a dog today.


#5273 TwentyThirtyFive

TwentyThirtyFive

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,311 posts

Posted 27 March 2023 - 02:04 PM


Because he isn't a fan of the Ravens. He's a fan of Lamar.

Again, think before you post. You are the one saying youd ruin the Ravens cap space not only in '23 but '24 by allowing him to sit out vs taking the 3rd round pick and the cap space. All out of spite. And Im the one who doesnt care about the Ravens. Everything youve said since this Lamar crusade youve been on has made the Ravens worse in '23 and '24. Lamar not back or traded makes us worse. Lamar sitting out while eating cap space def makes us worse. But Im the one who doesnt care about the Ravens. Your plans has always been to shit all over the next two seasons. If you try to sell that a drafted rookie has us contending you are an idiot or that naive

#5274 BSLChrisStoner

BSLChrisStoner

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 155,717 posts

Posted 27 March 2023 - 02:08 PM

Come on, you know the contract you're talking about and the one I'm talking about are barely different capwise. Is $42M vs $47M APY that different? I'm willing to guarantee it, which takes on back end risk. It's not any more expensive against the cap by doing that though. Just no escape plan.

 

The Ravens made an offer... Jackson said no. 

Jackson decided against negotiating during the season.

Jackson then went and had a '22 season that shouldn't have compelled the Ravens to offer more. 

 

A deal wasn't found, and then Jackson gained the ability to go and see how other teams valued him. 

And to-date, the other teams are saying that giving up the picks + the contract he wants is too much. 

 

You are comfortable with the Ravens increasing their offer, to get something done. 

 

I understand that pov, because you believe the Ravens have to him / an elite QB to be a SB contender. 

 

But for those of us who feel there are other ways to build a team, it doesn't sound like a great idea to give Jackson more than you previously offered.. when his '22 play didn't warrant it, and now you aren't seeing other teams running after him. 

 


I think Jackson was willing to do a deal here. Don't think he had intentions of leaving.
But you've now got to a point where he mentally wants to move on.
When that line has been met, I think it's in the best interest of all parties to have change. 

 

Really hope a few teams make clear they want him. 


  • russsnyder likes this

#5275 Slidemaster

Slidemaster

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,839 posts

Posted 27 March 2023 - 02:08 PM

Again, think before you post. You are the one saying youd ruin the Ravens cap space not only in '23 but '24 by allowing him to sit out vs taking the 3rd round pick and the cap space. All out of spite. And Im the one who doesnt care about the Ravens. Everything youve said since this Lamar crusade youve been on has made the Ravens worse in '23 and '24. Lamar not back or traded makes us worse. Lamar sitting out while eating cap space def makes us worse. But Im the one who doesnt care about the Ravens. Your plans has always been to shit all over the next two seasons. If you try to sell that a drafted rookie has us contending you are an idiot or that naive


Lamar won't sit out two full years. He'll sit out one year, maybe, but not both. I'm not letting him walk because he throws a tantrum. You're the only one who wants to do that because Lamar is your baby boy.

#5276 BSLJamieSieck

BSLJamieSieck

    Ravens Analyst

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,704 posts
  • LocationHampstead, MD

Posted 27 March 2023 - 02:08 PM

Lol. Hes not wrong in what he said. We are in a bad spot right now. Mack is one of the only.people who understands how hard it is to find difference making QB play. Thats what it comes down to.

 

Plenty of us understand how hard it is to find a difference making QB but we also know that it doesn't mean you just back up the Brinks truck and capitulate to whatever they want, market value be damned. Many of us also know how rare it is that a team wins a Super Bowl when their QB is making more than 15% of the salary. So far, Mahomes has been the only guy to do that, 


  • JStruds likes this

@primetime667083

 

"Just remember, whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right." -Stewie Griffin


#5277 BSLChrisStoner

BSLChrisStoner

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 155,717 posts

Posted 27 March 2023 - 02:09 PM

My literal words were that nobody wants him at the price he's asking. Do you read? Do you know how to read?

 

Teams might be fine with his individual price tag... I think that cost + the player cost is a lot for teams to deal with. 
Especially if you are cellar dweller...  you are going give Jackson the contract, but lose the pics?  Can you put a team around him?



#5278 TwentyThirtyFive

TwentyThirtyFive

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,311 posts

Posted 27 March 2023 - 02:10 PM


Also, the "out" is to let him walk. How is that a smart route to take?

How are you guys this thick. If he is that selfish and that hard up about guaranteed money and his asking price is so far off than his value then who is he going to sign with? He has to sign the tag to play. He has to sign the tag to be traded. He can refuse to do that and continue to hold up what the Ravens can do. But thats not on Lamar. The Ravens have an option thats lets them out from under Lamar. They still have that option. So how is it Lamars fault that the Ravens choose not to do that.



#5279 weird-O

weird-O

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,185 posts
  • LocationI'm here from downtown, I'm here from Mitch and Murray.

Posted 27 March 2023 - 02:14 PM

Again, think before you post. You are the one saying youd ruin the Ravens cap space not only in '23 but '24 by allowing him to sit out vs taking the 3rd round pick and the cap space. All out of spite. And Im the one who doesnt care about the Ravens. Everything youve said since this Lamar crusade youve been on has made the Ravens worse in '23 and '24. Lamar not back or traded makes us worse. Lamar sitting out while eating cap space def makes us worse. But Im the one who doesnt care about the Ravens. Your plans has always been to shit all over the next two seasons. If you try to sell that a drafted rookie has us contending you are an idiot or that naive

That spiteful scenario would hamstring the Ravens, which is why that would never be the motivation behind things. But it shouldn't be glossed over that his decision to sit out is an unacceptable business choice on his part. If I'm following along correctly, he can sit out until week 10 (or after week 10, however it was phrased) then report to the team, and the 2023 season would count as if he was with the team all season. This would allow him to move on to free agency, or be tagged again. 

 

If he goes down that path, you can't play him in week 11 or the remainder of the season. It's a slap in the face of the QB in weeks 1-10, and the rest of the team as well.    


Good news! I saw a dog today.


#5280 russsnyder

russsnyder

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,991 posts

Posted 27 March 2023 - 02:15 PM

I would consider it but a lot of it depends on how broken this has really been behind the scenes. I would also absolutely be ready to tag him 3 years for ~127M and let him find himself an offer sheet, you at least have to get the two firsts out of this. He wants to be traded yet he could leave any time if he finds something at a higher value than the Ravens see him at, so let him do the work and find it. If he wants to sit out fine, take the cap credit. In the meantime do your best to find another QB. Probably not going to get one this year though.

This team has never been that petty though.


They have never been this petty, however, they have never been in this situation before either. I like this approach, because I don't think Lamar has the capacity to do "the work."

His tweet about requesting the trade on March 2 was beyond petty and I think it will be tough for him to salvage a relationship with the Ravens at this point. He has left himself without a save face at this point. He didn't get the contract he wanted, so he feels disrespected by the Ravens. He's not getting any offers with the no exclusive tag, so he hurts his trade value by stating that he requested a trade on March 2.

Like Sean stated, I have no probablem with Jackson asking for a nax contract, but he's handled this situation very poorly. I say let him stew. Let him sit out the whole season if it comes down to it.


<p>"F IT!, Let's hit." Ted Williams




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users


Our Sponsors


 width=