5723 replies to this topic

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Its not complicated sir. Hes really available if you want to offer guaranteed money or some insane deal the Ravens will consider declining. But for anything realistic he isnt available

[Slidemaster]

Its not complicated sir. Hes really available if you want to offer guaranteed money or some insane deal the Ravens will consider declining. But for anything realistic he isnt available

If he's not available for anything realistic, he's not available. Teams aren't going to waste their time on that.

[weird-O]

It is wild to me that a serial sex offender fetched a bigger draft haul and more guaranteed money than Lamar is. To me that sends a clear signal that they either don't think he is truly available, or there are some concerns about his ability on the field (or his ability to *stay* on the field).

Either way, my guess is that the unofficial contact that was reaching out to teams was essentially his way of begging them to bid for his services. If they don't think he's really available, they wouldn't bother, and the less interest he garners, the worse it is for him.

I don't think it's any of this. I think it's just Cleveland being Cleveland. They're a joke of a team that made a desperate trade.  

[Steve55]

It is wild to me that a serial sex offender fetched a bigger draft haul and more guaranteed money than Lamar is. To me that sends a clear signal that they either don't think he is truly available, or there are some concerns about his ability on the field (or his ability to *stay* on the field).

Either way, my guess is that the unofficial contact that was reaching out to teams was essentially his way of begging them to bid for his services. If they don't think he's really available, they wouldn't bother, and the less interest he garners, the worse it is for him.

 

 

The serial sex offender shouldn't have received the contract he got. It just took a crazy desperate owner to offer it.

[Slidemaster]

I don't think it's any of this. I think it's just Cleveland being Cleveland. They're a joke of a team that made a desperate trade.

I agree, but there were several teams openly interested, weren't there?

[ivanbalt]

I agree, but there were several teams openly interested, weren't there?

I think Carolina and maybe one other team.  But those teams certainly weren't going to give up 3 #1s and then pay a guaranteed contract. 

[Mackus]

Its not complicated sir. Hes really available if you want to offer guaranteed money or some insane deal the Ravens will consider declining. But for anything realistic he isnt available

 

I remain shocked that nobody has offered him such a deal.  I don't think its crazy or unrealistic from a financial side, and have explained why.

 

Generally hate conspiracy theories, but an under-the-table agreement among all owners to try and stem the tide of fully guaranteed deals feels at least as plausible to me as the scenario of literally every team, including many QB-hungry teams with cap space, simply thinking that Lamar isn't worth the squeeze when several of them were right in the mix for Watson a year ago for much bigger trade packages even if they weren't willing to go full guarantee on the deal.

 

I've got no idea how this will end up going, as so far its pretty much completely different than I expected.

[bmore_ken]

I don't think it's any of this. I think it's just Cleveland being Cleveland. They're a joke of a team that made a desperate trade.  

There's truth to that, but Cleveland just gave him the best offer. There were other teams trying to sign him. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

If he's not available for anything realistic, he's not available. Teams aren't going to waste their time on that.

Its realistic to offer him something huge that the Ravens will at least consider declining. But again, its risky and it would be risky for anyone. Im not gonna say Lamar doesnt bring extra risk but it would make you swallow hard if it were Burrow too.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I remain shocked that nobody has offered him such a deal. I don't think its crazy or unrealistic from a financial side, and have explained why.

Generally hate conspiracy theories, but an under-the-table agreement among all owners to try and stem the tide of fully guaranteed deals feels at least as plausible to me as the scenario of literally every team, including many QB-hungry teams with cap space, simply thinking that Lamar isn't worth the squeeze when several of them were right in the mix for Watson a year ago for much bigger trade packages even if they weren't willing to go full guarantee on the deal.

I've got no idea how this will end up going, as so far its pretty much completely different than I expected.

There is no doubt in my mind there is collusion to avoid the guaranteed deal. I also am surprised some team with a ton of cap space hasnt tried to make it difficult for BMore to match but there werent/arent many teams that can make it that hard.


I will say this, Im surprised a team hasnt put something very big toghther and at least test the Ravens on how much they really want Lamar. That prob comes back on knowing exactly what the best offer was by the Ravens. If its a very good offer there really isnt much room between it and what a team could offer without going fully guaranteed. Obviously a team would have to make it enticing enough to Lamar to sign the offer sheet.

[bmore_ken]

There is no doubt in my mind there is collusion to avoid the guaranteed deal. .

There's no collusion you're talking about a record breaking contract for a guy that can't stay on the field for a whole season. Would you like to be the owner to pay 50 million a year for 10 games

[hallas]

The non-collusion rationale that makes the most sense to me is that teams expect the Ravens to match any offer they'd make.

I'm still surprised that nobody has made an offer they think the Ravens wouldn't match, either via big guarantees or by front loading the cap hit, especially now that the pick compensation is so much less than expected.

I think the real shocker was the Falcons. They were in a good position to make him an offer the Ravens couldn't match, and had the need, too. 8 and next year's first is significantly less than previous QB trades.

[weird-O]

There is no doubt in my mind there is collusion to avoid the guaranteed deal. I also am surprised some team with a ton of cap space hasnt tried to make it difficult for BMore to match but there werent/arent many teams that can make it that hard.

A shared lack of desire to go down the "fully guaranteed" speedway, isn't collusion. It's just a common business practice that they, as individuals, want to avoid. Otherwise, Cleveland wouldn't have fully guaranteed Watson's contract. The tribal elders would have stopped them. The only people yelling collusion, that I've heard anyway, are those reporters/analysts that have a very pro player spin, with a bias against owners. 

 

Lamar is being hampered by the results of his last two seasons, coupled with his own demands.     

[hallas]

A shared lack of desire to go down the "fully guaranteed" speedway, isn't collusion. It's just a common business practice that they, as individuals, want to avoid. Otherwise, Cleveland wouldn't have fully guaranteed Watson's contract. The tribal elders would have stopped them. The only people yelling collusion, that I've heard anyway, are those reporters/analysts that have a very pro player spin, with a bias against owners. 

 

Lamar is being hampered by the results of his last two seasons, coupled with his own demands.     

 

Do you think if he finished last season he'd get a fully guaranteed deal?

[weird-O]

Do you think if he finished last season he'd get a fully guaranteed deal?

Not from the Ravens. And it seems like the other teams aren't looking to make that a new standard.

[makoman]

I think the real shocker was the Falcons. They were in a good position to make him an offer the Ravens couldn't match, and had the need, too. 8 and next year's first is significantly less than previous QB trades.

A ton of teams have plausible reasons not to be in on Lamar. They either have a QB already that they like or can't cut, or aren't even allowed to submit an offer sheet yet (I imagine you can't talk to Lamar if you can't submit an offer, you could if he had an agent). Maybe the Rams, Broncos, Cowboys, Dolphins, 49ers, Chiefs, Bills, Browns would all love Lamar even at a guaranteed deal, but they can't really do anything about it. Maybe Snyder would love him if staying, but doesn't want to mess up a potential sale. Maybe the Raiders would love him but are too poor even to fire their coach so aren't putting 200M in escrow. Maybe TB knew they could never make enough cap space. The Texans and Panthers and maybe Colts prefer to draft someone. 

 

Yeah, the Falcons are the weird one, seems like the perfect opportunity. The Jets too but they are obviously on Rodgers (who is old but has won two MVPs since 2019 and at least the Jets thought would cost less than a 1st). Maybe Blank is gun-shy after Vick, they probably were made whole in that situation but I don't really know. Maybe he is just against guarantees.

 

Anyway, people can give different weights but it isn't disputable that fully guaranteed is more risky. Several of the no brainer teams could have made the business decision that it isn't worth it on anybody, and that's not collusion. Especially for a guy who has been hurt two years straight. If Daniel Jones hadn't been tagged and told the world he wanted a 6/300M deal it wouldn't be collusion that he's still on the street, it's just 10 QB needy teams making the same decision. And it's not really collusion if 10 teams would sign him but simply can't. I don't like carrying water for the owners, but it's easy to infer that collusion has happened and pretty much impossible to say for sure.

[weird-O]

I don't like carrying water for the owners, but it's easy to infer that collusion has happened and pretty much impossible to say for sure.

I felt the same way about my last post. I felt like I should take a shower, after defending them on that subject. 

[ivanbalt]

There's no collusion you're talking about a record breaking contract for a guy that can't stay on the field for a whole season. Would you like to be the owner to pay 50 million a year for 10 games

I don't know why it's a difficult point to understand.  Plus Lamar's x-factor is his mobility and over time injuries tend to decrease mobility.

[Mackus]

There's no collusion you're talking about a record breaking contract for a guy that can't stay on the field for a whole season. Would you like to be the owner to pay 50 million a year for 10 games

 

I'd rather pay Lamar $50M than get a QB for free who isn't in the top 10 or 15 in the league.  Cap space is manageable.  Lack of a QB isn't.  And a star QB, which I firmly believe Lamar is capable of being, is an entire extra benefit above even the regular franchise tier of QBs.

 

So yes, I'd definitely rather be the owner that pays Lamar than the owner who is still looking for a QB.

 

Finding a quality QB for less is a superior option, but that is not an easily accomplished goal, and you're hopeless if it isn't achieved.

 

If the Ravens can win the negotiation and get Lamar back for less than most expectations, that's a terrific outcome.

[hallas]

https://www.thedrawp...cksons-problem/