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Lamar - Extension?


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#2381 Mackus

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 11:12 AM

I'd definitely pass on paying a premium for a backup QB.  I get the need & desire, but once/if he gets paid we're not gonna have the luxury to spend more cap space on that.  Maybe you can do it in 2023 when he's in Year 1 of a new deal.  I'll roll the dice on Lamar's health and spend that $5-10M of cap space on another position over spending it on whatever the performance difference is between Teddy Bridgewater and a minimum salary backup.

 

If Lamar is gone, then a higher priced backup who can be a bridge starter early in the season until a rookie is ready, and hopefully a mentor figure in some ways, makes perfect sense.



#2382 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 11:56 AM

I'd definitely pass on paying a premium for a backup QB.  I get the need & desire, but once/if he gets paid we're not gonna have the luxury to spend more cap space on that.  Maybe you can do it in 2023 when he's in Year 1 of a new deal.  I'll roll the dice on Lamar's health and spend that $5-10M of cap space on another position over spending it on whatever the performance difference is between Teddy Bridgewater and a minimum salary backup.

 

If Lamar is gone, then a higher priced backup who can be a bridge starter early in the season until a rookie is ready, and hopefully a mentor figure in some ways, makes perfect sense.

More like flip a coin. 

 

Although, it seems like $250M ish makes some injuries more tolerable, or heal much quicker. So maybe the odds will be better then. 


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#2383 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 12:04 PM

More like flip a coin. 

 

Although, it seems like $250M ish makes some injuries more tolerable, or heal much quicker. So maybe the odds will be better then. 

 

Ouch.....


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#2384 bmore_ken

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 02:24 PM

I don't know that you have to pay a premium to get someone better than Huntley.



#2385 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 03:07 PM

I don't know that you have to pay a premium to get someone better than Huntley.

 

If the Ravens are able to work out a long term deal with Jackson, I don't have any issue retaining Huntley as a backup. If his shoulder is healthy, he's fine for spot duty. 

 

Furthermore, as an organization, if you think you need to have a premium backup because you're worried about your starter missing significant amounts of time during his tenure, perhaps you've made a poor choice as your starting quarterback.


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#2386 makoman

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 03:11 PM

I'd definitely pass on paying a premium for a backup QB. I get the need & desire, but once/if he gets paid we're not gonna have the luxury to spend more cap space on that. Maybe you can do it in 2023 when he's in Year 1 of a new deal. I'll roll the dice on Lamar's health and spend that $5-10M of cap space on another position over spending it on whatever the performance difference is between Teddy Bridgewater and a minimum salary backup.

If Lamar is gone, then a higher priced backup who can be a bridge starter early in the season until a rookie is ready, and hopefully a mentor figure in some ways, makes perfect sense.


It's an interesting decision philosophically. What should you be paying the backup QB, the guy who you hope gets zero snaps during the year?

Previously I've been good with paying someone basically the minimum. If your QB gets hurt you are in big trouble if it's more than a couple weeks, so you just need a guy that can fill in for a week or two cause if it's longer you have big problems anyway. Case Keenum was 3.5M against the cap this year for the Bills, Chad Henne was $2M for the Chiefs. Can't expect much better than that so might as well not spend much. Especially if you are paying Lamar 15-20% or whatever, you need to minimize the QB outlay somehow.

Unfortunately Lamar has now missed a lot of time two years running. Does that mean you have to devote even more money to the backup because he's injury prone, and you need to ensure you can stay afloat if he happens to be out for 6 games? To me that's an underrated bad part about the Lamar injuries, now I want to spend more on backup QB and increase the QB outlay even more. But you want to get by with like a $2.5M at most backup if you can. I don't want to be spending $7M on a backup if I'm paying Lamar market prices, that's just a waste of a good player if Lamar is healthy.

Now is Huntley good enough to be that $2.5M guy? Mariota for example cost $4.2 this past year and $14 next year but he'll surely be cut. I think Huntley isn't as bad as he seemed this year. Last year he was alright, had them in position to beat two top contenders in the Rams and Packers. This year he wasn't nearly as good but still was good enough to win a playoff game IMO if not for the sneak, I don't think you can expect much more than that from your backup. Plus he was hurt, when you have marginal arm strength as is then you have a bad shoulder that really drops you out of being a capable NFL player, if he's healthy I think he could be adequate. Adequate not that I think he's very good, I think the bar is just pretty low for backup QB. I wouldn't consider him whatsoever as a starter. But as a backup he could be fine again if healthy and if pretty cheap ~2M. I mean as early as week 1 national people were suggesting the Cowboys trade for him to start, he wasn't thought of that poorly until the end of this season, when again he was hurt a lot of the time.

So I think I'd be alright with having Huntley back for cheap, assuming we keep Lamar. I think you aren't going to get enough better while spending more money. If Lamar isn't back it's a different story and you want some sort of vet presence with whatever young guy you get.
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#2387 bmore_ken

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 03:21 PM

If the Ravens are able to work out a long term deal with Jackson, I don't have any issue retaining Huntley as a backup. If his shoulder is healthy, he's fine for spot duty. 

 

Furthermore, as an organization, if you think you need to have a premium backup because you're worried about your starter missing significant amounts of time during his tenure, perhaps you've made a poor choice as your starting quarterback.

Agreed



#2388 bmore_ken

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 03:33 PM



So I think I'd be alright with having Huntley back for cheap, assuming we keep Lamar. I think you aren't going to get enough better while spending more money. If Lamar isn't back it's a different story and you want some sort of vet presence with whatever young guy you get.

I'm ok keeping Huntley as a backup if you're only expecting him to play one or two games a year max. Typical backup duty. If however you're expecting Lamar to miss 4 or 5 games a year, As Jamie said it becomes a different discussion. Huntley was good enough to beat the Bengals, but IMO that's not saying much. And just the fact that Huntley was almost good enough to beat the Bengals means $4M for a better backup isn't the worst thing in the world for the team. Unfortunately with Harbaugh, we never know the actual extent of injuries.

#2389 Mackus

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 03:42 PM


Unfortunately Lamar has now missed a lot of time two years running. Does that mean you have to devote even more money to the backup because he's injury prone, and you need to ensure you can stay afloat if he happens to be out for 6 games? To me that's an underrated bad part about the Lamar injuries, now I want to spend more on backup QB and increase the QB outlay even more. But you want to get by with like a $2.5M at most backup if you can. I don't want to be spending $7M on a backup if I'm paying Lamar market prices, that's just a waste of a good player if Lamar is healthy.

 

You touch on all the things that I think go into the decision here.  Assuming a Lamar extension (the more debatable scenario, since there isn't money for anything else if he's on the tag and there is nearly unlimited money for a high quality backup if he's gone), I still look at his injuries as more flukish things that I wouldn't assume happen again in any given season, and as such, I'd save money on the backup QB and go with Brown or another near-mimimum salary guy and instead will invest the money that could've gone to a backup into another position group that we hope to get more regular contributions from rather than invest in the insurance policy.  I think the rest of the roster is good enough that even a guy like Brown can give you a good shot for a win against about half the league if needed for 1-2 weeks.  Longer than that and I'd get bit.

 

I would imagine that the more confident you would be in absorbing 1-2 games in your schedule with the backup and still making the playoffs and/or winning the division, the more risk you're willing to take on investing the backup QB money elsewhere.


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#2390 Mackus

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 03:43 PM

I'm ok keeping Huntley as a backup if you're only expecting him to play one or two games a year max. Typical backup duty. If however you're expecting Lamar to miss 4 or 5 games a year, As Jamie said it becomes a different discussion. Huntley was good enough to beat the Bengals, but IMO that's not saying much. And just the fact that Huntley was almost good enough to beat the Bengals means $4M for a better backup isn't the worst thing in the world for the team. Unfortunately with Harbaugh, we never know the actual extent of injuries.

 

I can't envision a scenario where someone both expects Lamar to miss 4-5 games a year AND wants to retain Lamar as the QB at such high cost.  Those are mutually excusive opinions.



#2391 makoman

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 03:55 PM

I can't envision a scenario where someone both expects Lamar to miss 4-5 games a year AND wants to retain Lamar as the QB at such high cost.  Those are mutually excusive opinions.

Yep, if he's injury prone then you just can't sign him for that ~$250M top of market deal. No one is worth 20% of the cap or whatever if they're only playing 75% if the games. That's the answer to my post's questions. You have to assume he's playing 15+ games (and thus the backup doesn't matter a whole lot) if you're willing to pay him the asking price, if you don't think he can do that, that's another reason to trade him.



#2392 bmore_ken

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 07:18 PM


I can't envision a scenario where someone both expects Lamar to miss 4-5 games a year AND wants to retain Lamar as the QB at such high cost. Those are mutually excusive opinions.

I only brought that up because it's been two seasons in a row and has to be factored into the decision. But again, we don't actually know the extent of what his injury was this past season thanks to Harbaugh. Either he was faking like Mike thinks, or he was actually injured the second season in a row. I don't have confidence in Harbaugh being forthcoming with that.
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#2393 cprenegade

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 08:04 PM

I've always felt you either go with a rookie/2nd year player with potential and low salary, or an aging vet with a low salary.  Mainly because if you really are a contender you most likely can't absorb a QB being hurt more than 20-25% of the season and still get to a SB.  Not saying it can't happen, but it's rare.  My backup is going to be someone who I feel comfortable with coming into a game and maybe saving it as a win if my starter goes out, maybe a game or two but not someone approaching half the season.  If I need my backup for that long, probably not going far in the playoffs anyway.

 

The Ravens were contending for a #1 seed two years ago when Jackson went out, they finished out of the playoffs.  They were contending for the division when he went out this year, they finished as the 6th seed and early exit in the playoffs.  

 

I think they do need to consider the possibility that Lamar is injury prone.  Two years in a row not being able to get back on the field with leg injuries can't be ignored.  Unless you believe that he didn't really try to get back this year.  In which case the Ravens shouldn't even be considering signing him.  That's a deal breaker, imo.  


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#2394 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 09:31 PM

I only brought that up because it's been two seasons in a row and has to be factored into the decision. But again, we don't actually know the extent of what his injury was this past season thanks to Harbaugh. Either he was faking like Mike thinks, or he was actually injured the second season in a row. I don't have confidence in Harbaugh being forthcoming with that.


Never said he was faking. Said he could have played if he wanted to. As well as some other choice words :)

They even asked DeCosta at the presser if not having contract played into Lamar sitting out. His response was “You’ll have to ask Lamar about that, but I think he’s hurt.”

The brass has done him zero favors the way they portrayed all of this to the public. If the contract situation had nothing to do with it EDC should have shot it down immediately, not say “ask him” first, then try to cover your tracks with all the “he’s working hard” talk.

I believe 100% if he told Harbs “This is my team, I’m the leader, I’m playing,” he’d have played. Instead he wished them luck with Huntley.
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#2395 Ravens2006

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 11:13 PM

One thing that I still question is the Ravens training staff and processes under Saunders. There are some legitimate concerns there, and reasons for them supported by gripes from multiple former players. Never mind the COVID outbreak issue which he apparently triggered.

I wouldn't be surprised if they've lost the trust of the players when it comes to rehab and recovery. Strikes me as a potentially unhealthy situation. Wolfe basically said his recovery went belly up as soon as he started Saunders program and his career was done. Judon basically called for his firing after he got to New England.

#2396 Steve55

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 06:30 AM

I only brought that up because it's been two seasons in a row and has to be factored into the decision. But again, we don't actually know the extent of what his injury was this past season thanks to Harbaugh. Either he was faking like Mike thinks, or he was actually injured the second season in a row. I don't have confidence in Harbaugh being forthcoming with that.

 

 

We will find out the extent of the injury with a physical being part of any new contract.



#2397 Slidemaster

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 10:39 AM

One thing that I still question is the Ravens training staff and processes under Saunders. There are some legitimate concerns there, and reasons for them supported by gripes from multiple former players. Never mind the COVID outbreak issue which he apparently triggered.

I wouldn't be surprised if they've lost the trust of the players when it comes to rehab and recovery. Strikes me as a potentially unhealthy situation. Wolfe basically said his recovery went belly up as soon as he started Saunders program and his career was done. Judon basically called for his firing after he got to New England.


To me, even being in a situation where we are hearing the strength and conditioning coach's name for any reason in the media is likely a problem. If he's doing his job correctly, we shouldn't even know who he is unless we search for him.
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#2398 Biggsy

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Posted 09 February 2023 - 04:35 AM

Uh oh. Lamar has made a post on Instagram, captioned "2023 😈" In it hes wearing Ravens gear, and he's 'holding his bag' that has a large golden Ravens emblem on top of it. 150% resigning.


Am I doing it right ?
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#2399 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 09 February 2023 - 11:26 AM

Uh oh. Lamar has made a post on Instagram, captioned "2023 😈" In it hes wearing Ravens gear, and he's 'holding his bag' that has a large golden Ravens emblem on top of it. 150% resigning.


Am I doing it right ?


Honestly who the hell knows at this point. Neither side has done the other any favors with poor comments to the press from the Ravens and poor antics from LJ.

I think the Ravens leaked the offer to the media last fall so it wouldn’t make them look like they didn’t try. Maybe for LJ this is the reverse of erasing “Ravens” from all social media. By making it look like he’s all-in for the Ravens, he is saying he wants to be here but it the Ravens aren’t meeting his demands, so it gets everyone saying “sign him”. Gets public on his side.

Even other star players from other teams have gone on social media begging for the Ravens to sign this man. Probably because another athlete getting a fully guaranteed deal means it becomes more the norm for the rest of them.
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#2400 Slidemaster

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Posted 09 February 2023 - 01:03 PM

Uh oh. Lamar has made a post on Instagram, captioned "2023 😈" In it hes wearing Ravens gear, and he's 'holding his bag' that has a large golden Ravens emblem on top of it. 150% resigning.


Am I doing it right ?

Honestly, I don't think that's a bad assumption. It was captioned with "2023."




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