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Lamar - Extension?


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#2341 Mackus

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 11:15 AM

I like Carr but he's gonna be very expensive himself even after whatever pick you gotta give up for him (he's gotta cost as least as much as recent trades for Rivers, Wentz, Ryan, and Wentz again right?).  Not as much cap hit as Lamar, but he doesn't provide the same production and upside.  If Lamar is out, then I think I'd rather just roll with a rookie draft pick than have $33M in cap space tied to Carr (even if you push much of it forward into 2024/2025 via a restructure).



#2342 bmore_ken

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 11:37 AM

I am tired of the whole situation.  I think they make one last push at signing him and then make the best trade possible.

As for Carr, he can probably be had cheap.  

Cheap is relative when you're talking the QB position, but definitely cheaper than Lamar.



#2343 jamesdean

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 11:39 AM

I like Carr but he's gonna be very expensive himself even after whatever pick you gotta give up for him (he's gotta cost as least as much as recent trades for Rivers, Wentz, Ryan, and Wentz again right?).  Not as much cap hit as Lamar, but he doesn't provide the same production and upside.  If Lamar is out, then I think I'd rather just roll with a rookie draft pick than have $33M in cap space tied to Carr (even if you push much of it forward into 2024/2025 via a restructure).

Tend to agree with this.  I'm not a huge Carr fan to begin with but I think tying that much money up in him is foolish for the overall well being of the team.  If the Ravens can get a high, No.1 pick in a trade for Lamar, I'd rather they grab one of the top quarterbacks and if they feel it would be better to slowly acclimate him early in the season, you could always sign a veteran quarterback that would come cheap. One that's certainly better than Huntley.  



#2344 bmore_ken

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 11:45 AM

I like Carr but he's gonna be very expensive himself even after whatever pick you gotta give up for him (he's gotta cost as least as much as recent trades for Rivers, Wentz, Ryan, and Wentz again right?).  Not as much cap hit as Lamar, but he doesn't provide the same production and upside.  If Lamar is out, then I think I'd rather just roll with a rookie draft pick than have $33M in cap space tied to Carr (even if you push much of it forward into 2024/2025 via a restructure).

I'm not on board with a rookie. This team has enough talent on both sides of the ball to make a run. We'll never know, but I think a healthy Lamar beats Cincy. Beating the Chiefs would have  been another issue, but that's not a problem that's going away. Carr won't be cheap, but wouldn't cost Lamar money and would be a better option than a rookie IMO.



#2345 bmore_ken

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 11:53 AM

Tend to agree with this.  I'm not a huge Carr fan to begin with but I think tying that much money up in him is foolish for the overall well being of the team.  If the Ravens can get a high, No.1 pick in a trade for Lamar, I'd rather they grab one of the top quarterbacks and if they feel it would be better to slowly acclimate him early in the season, you could always sign a veteran quarterback that would come cheap. One that's certainly better than Huntley.  

The problem is only one team has that pick and has a QB need.The Bears and Cardinals are 1 and 3. The Texans are at 2. If you can't get the Texans pick, The Colts are a possibility at 4. The Seahawks and Lions are at 5 and 6. There's a possibility with the Raiders at 7 since they seem done with Carr. Stroud likely won't make it that far, who you picking assuming you can get in the top 10?



#2346 jamesdean

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 12:01 PM

The problem is only one team has that pick and has a QB need.The Bears and Cardinals are 1 and 3. The Texans are at 2. If you can't get the Texans pick, The Colts are a possibility at 4. The Seahawks and Lions are at 5 and 6. There's a possibility with the Raiders at 7 since they seem done with Carr. Stroud likely won't make it that far, who you picking assuming you can get in the top 10?

I'm not going to pretend to know a whole lot about any of these top quarterbacks in the draft because I don't follow college football. But I will be reading up on various mock drafts, scouting analysis, and of course, watching the Lamar sweepstakes closely.  The Ravens did very well when they inserted Lamar into the starting lineup in 2018 and I think any quarterback taken in the first round is more than capable of doing the same thing. At least potentially.  Who knows which ones will be a bust and which ones will carry a team to the post season. Even in the first round, it can be a crap shoot.  But I think long term, it's the way to go.  If they do draft a quarterback in the Top 5-10, I don't see much of a point in signing Carr.  And I seriously doubt he'd want to come here knowing he's just a stop-gap player. 


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#2347 mdrunning

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 12:10 PM

If the Ravens do find themselves quarterback shopping, I'd prefer Ryan Tannehill if the Titans choose to release him this offseason. I think there's a hard ceiling with Tannehill, but in a run-first system like the Ravens', I think he could be effective. He's particularly good on play action, as we saw in that playoff game a few years back.


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#2348 SonicAttack

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 12:31 PM

I really hope the Ravens and Lamar are able to agree on a long-term contract.  Lamar is a top 5 QB IMO.  I wouldn't sacrifice my payroll for Lamar, so I hope they can find agreeable terms for both sides.  

Lamar is an elite QB - top tier no question.  Drafts are a crap shoot, no guarantees.  If an agreement can't be reached, then a trade is required.   I hope it doesn't come to that.  I would love Lamar as the Raven's QB with a dynamic passing scheme - hello Monken.



#2349 Mike in STL

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 12:34 PM

I am tired of the whole situation.  I think they make one last push at signing him and then make the best trade possible.

As for Carr, he can probably be had cheap.  

He was a pro bowler! :)


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#2350 Mike B

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 12:38 PM

If the Ravens do find themselves quarterback shopping this offseason, I'd prefer Ryan Tannehill if the Titans choose to release him this offseason. I think there's a hard ceiling with Tannehill, but in a run-first system like the Ravens', I think he could be effective. He's particularly good on play action, as we saw in that playoff game a few years back.

Interesting and I could see him being effective for a year or two.


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#2351 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 12:48 PM

Interesting and I could see him being effective for a year or two.

 

Regarding Tannehill, his efficacy has been inextricably linked to Derrick Henry. Would the Dobbins/Edwards combo be impactful enough to allow Tannehill to operate an offense here? And it goes without saying that we would have to upgrade the WR corps to support Tannehill...or any QB for that matter.


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#2352 Mackus

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 12:54 PM

I'm not on board with a rookie. This team has enough talent on both sides of the ball to make a run. We'll never know, but I think a healthy Lamar beats Cincy. Beating the Chiefs would have  been another issue, but that's not a problem that's going away. Carr won't be cheap, but wouldn't cost Lamar money and would be a better option than a rookie IMO.

 

He does cost Lamar money, though, at least early on in an extension.  A deal for Lamar has bigger backside risk than a trade and restructure for Carr.  But in 2023 they're likely similar expenses against the cap.  Probably similar expenses in 2024 as well.

 

Lamar on a tag is a different, more expensive beast.  Carr even without a restructure would be about $12M less than that.  Actually having Lamar play on the tag seems unlikely to me so isn't really a scenario I'm considering.



#2353 Mike B

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 02:09 PM

Cheap is relative when you're talking the QB position, but definitely cheaper than Lamar.

I was talking cheapin what it would take to obtain him, draft pick wise.


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#2354 Mackus

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 02:22 PM

I was talking cheapin what it would take to obtain him, draft pick wise.

 

Eagles got a 3rd and future 1st for Wentz.

Colts got a 3rd and future 3rd for Wentz a year later.

Falcons got a 3rd for Ryan.

 

I would put Carr closer to the first Wentz trade than the Ryan trade, considering age and recent performance.  I doubt it takes a 1st, but also doubt that it only takes a 3rd.



#2355 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 02:58 PM

If we were to have to move on from Jackson, does anyone think that the organization believes Tyler Huntley could be a stop gap? 


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#2356 bmore_ken

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 02:59 PM

I was talking cheapin what it would take to obtain him, draft pick wise.

 

 

Eagles got a 3rd and future 1st for Wentz.

Colts got a 3rd and future 3rd for Wentz a year later.

Falcons got a 3rd for Ryan.

 

I would put Carr closer to the first Wentz trade than the Ryan trade, considering age and recent performance.  I doubt it takes a 1st, but also doubt that it only takes a 3rd.

The way it's looking. You might not need a trade for Carr. If a trade is needed, you both are probably right.



#2357 bmore_ken

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 03:00 PM

If we were to have to move on from Jackson, does anyone think that the organization believes Tyler Huntley could be a stop gap? 

Nope. We've seen what he has and he ain't it. Especially when there will be better QBs on the free agent market.



#2358 CantonJester

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 03:03 PM

If we were to have to move on from Jackson, does anyone think that the organization believes Tyler Huntley could be a stop gap? 

 

 

Nope. We've seen what he has and he ain't it. Especially when there will be better QBs on the free agent market.

 

A better stop-gap solution would be to sign Marcus Mariota. He'll be looking to rejuvenate his career, and he's got at least twice the skillset as Huntley. 


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#2359 Mackus

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 03:08 PM


If we were to have to move on from Jackson, does anyone think that the organization believes Tyler Huntley could be a stop gap?


No. Maybe a few games bridge to a 1st round rookie, but not a full season.

#2360 Mackus

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 03:15 PM

The way it's looking. You might not need a trade for Carr. If a trade is needed, you both are probably right.

 

I can't imagine him being released.  Only $5.625M in dead money for LV if they trade him, and only $3.75M of that could be pushed back to the 2024 season by making him a June 1 release.  So no big advantage for LV to prefer a release to a trade, they'll certainly find someone who is willing to take on his remaining contract.






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