5723 replies to this topic

[hallas]

I'm not even espousing the Ravens should go the route that I'm suggesting. However, for an incredibly unique, practically unprecedented situation, I was presenting an out of the box solution.

 

And this is the beauty of message board discussions amongst fans. We can have diametrically opposed view points and it's all good. I appreciate your perspective as always.

 

I don't think that solution does anything in terms of making it more likely to sign an extension, and it's got a massive downside with no upside (that I'm aware of.)

[mdrunning]

Another issue would be a team like Houston has a ton of cap space, and 2 first rounders. They could structure a contract in a way that the Ravens couldn't financially match, and still have a first rounder. That would be a steal for them.

A non-exclusive tag isn't viable.

Most figures I've seen place Houston at around $40 to $47 million under the cap for 2023. They either rank seventh or ninth, depending on whose figures you take as gospel.

[Ravens2006]

I'm pretty sure if Lamar had broken a leg bone for all the world to see in it's "Oh my, his leg / foot shouldn't be bent like that"... like the Dak Prescott injury... Harbs would have spent the rest of the season playing the same "We'll see how it goes, we want him back, we hope to have him back, he's working hard to get back" game.

 

Dak had a major injury that undoubtedly sidelined him for 4 to 6 months (no matter how Harbs would have spun it). There was ZERO question as to whether he'd play again that season.  He was done, resting, getting bones fixed, etc.  Had the better part of a whole year to recover before playing games that mattered again.  This past season, he missed 5 games with the thumb injury.  The Cowboys immediately said he'd likely be out a few weeks.  There was no week-to-week "We'll see" game.

 

I think it's pretty apparent that the nature of how Harbs, with his tin-foil hat and "competitive advantage" beliefs, talks about player injuries leads to a lot of legitimately injured players having their work ethic questioned.  It's a shame, but it goes back to Perriman, and has repeated with Stanley, Wolfe, and now Jackson, just as the most prominent examples.  There's a common thread here...

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Lol. Yeah because Harbaugh never gives exact timelines or rules guys out when they break bones or have longterm injuries. If you cant see the uncertainty with the nature of this latest injury no one can help you. Or you have an agenda. Yeah, Im gonna say agenda

[Mackus]

I don't think that solution does anything in terms of making it more likely to sign an extension, and it's got a massive downside with no upside (that I'm aware of.)

The only narrow path to upside is if he signs a deal that the Ravens can match and somehow that is less than he'd have agreed with here. I think both aspects of that hypothetical are very unlikely.

[jamesdean]

I'm pretty sure if Lamar had broken a leg bone for all the world to see in it's "Oh my, his leg / foot shouldn't be bent like that"... like the Dak Prescott injury... Harbs would have spent the rest of the season playing the same "We'll see how it goes, we want him back, we hope to have him back, he's working hard to get back" game.

 

Dak had a major injury that undoubtedly sidelined him for 4 to 6 months (no matter how Harbs would have spun it). There was ZERO question as to whether he'd play again that season.  He was done, resting, getting bones fixed, etc.  Had the better part of a whole year to recover before playing games that mattered again.  This past season, he missed 5 games with the thumb injury.  The Cowboys immediately said he'd likely be out a few weeks.  There was no week-to-week "We'll see" game.

 

I think it's pretty apparent that the nature of how Harbs, with his tin-foil hat and "competitive advantage" beliefs, talks about player injuries leads to a lot of legitimately injured players having their work ethic questioned.  It's a shame, but it goes back to Perriman, and has repeated with Stanley, Wolfe, and now Jackson, just as the most prominent examples.  There's a common thread here...

What really irritates me about Harbaugh and his injury paranoia is that I could live with him saying, "I'm not discussing injuries because it will potentially impact our chances of winning this week in a negative way."  If he would just leave it at that, we all could shake our heads, laugh a little and move on.  But it's his disingenuous banter about trying to present himself as this oblivious, innocent bystander that knows nothing more than you or I do that pisses me off.  He thinks the average fan is stupid and will believe that HS.  The truth is, there's many intelligent(you included) people who love sports and follow it religiously and with extensive, analytical data at their fingertips, aren't going to have any trouble knowing they're being taken for a ride.  That's Harbaugh's level of stupidity that never fails to rear it's head every year.  Yeah, John didn't have any idea what was going on with Lamar.  Sure.  And when the Easter Bunny shows up in a few months, I'll make sure he's wearing his Ravens jersey. 

[PrimeTime]

How do the Ravens and Jackson break the impasse? Lamar doesn't seem like he's going to budge and I don't see the Ravens capitulating either. How is this situation going to change?

[Mike in STL]

If he didn't shut down negotiations it would have been all the press talked about with the team, even more so than it already was. It would have been a huge distraction, and then any detractors would have just said he should shut down negotiations to focus on football. Seems like a lose-lose unless a deal got done quickly.

If he didn’t shut down negotiations then the onus is on the Ravens. The pressure, especially after the first three weeks where he looked like 2019 LJ, would have been squarely on the Ravens. The media would be wondering why the Ravens aren’t pushing to get it done. It would have been a distraction, but the Ravens look like the idiots. Not the other way around.

I think the Ravens leaked the contract offer before the start of the season on purpose so it looks like they made a fair, expensive offer, so that the ball is in LJs court, and the brass wouldn’t have to answer much about it.

[jamesdean]

How do the Ravens and Jackson break the impasse? Lamar doesn't seem like he's going to budge and I don't see the Ravens capitulating either. How is this situation going to change?

Probably never until he's traded.  Even if he does want to play out his career in Baltimore, the organization is not going to sell the farm just for him.  EDC's thinly veiled comments the other day would indicate as much.  So, for me, the ball is squarely in Lamar's court.  Either he accepts less than what he's hoping for or he's gone.  Simple as that. 

[Slidemaster]

Probably never until he's traded. Even if he does want to play out his career in Baltimore, the organization is not going to sell the farm just for him. EDC's thinly veiled comments the other day would indicate as much. So, for me, the ball is squarely in Lamar's court. Either he accepts less than what he's hoping for or he's gone. Simple as that.

Which comments were these?

[jamesdean]

Which comments were these?

When he was talking about not being able to spend unlimited amount of money on free agents just because the fans want him to...that it's a very complicated, potentially damaging process for an organization financially and difficult to make it work when so much money is allocated to one person.  He never mentioned Lamar in reference to that but he didn't have to. 

[bmore_ken]

I'm not even espousing the Ravens should go the route that I'm suggesting. However, for an incredibly unique, practically unprecedented situation, I was presenting an out of the box solution.

 

And this is the beauty of message board discussions amongst fans. We can have diametrically opposed view points and it's all good. I appreciate your perspective as always.

That's not the way you framed it. You said that plan likely brings him back to Baltimore, which imo is wrong.

[Mike in STL]

Beyond what anyone thinks should happen, what do you expect to happen here?

I'm pretty sure a deal gets done.

I think LJ is out on the Ravens unless they blow him away with a deal. I don’t think it’s all wine and roses between he and the brass like they might have you believe. Harbs can say we want him to be here and he wants to be here. But all of that is with the caveat of money. We want him…at a price that works for us. Lamar wants to be here…at a price that works for him. If those figures are far apart, there isn’t much to discuss.

We heard Harbs say that they “talk everyday”. His input is valued when it comes to the OC search. Maybe they hire an OC that gets Lamar real excited, then they reach a deal. But I just have a hunch things are sour between the two sides.

[bmore_ken]

He thinks the average fan is stupid and will believe that HS. 

Well in fairness, there's one person here that believes it 

[bmore_ken]

How do the Ravens and Jackson break the impasse? Lamar doesn't seem like he's going to budge and I don't see the Ravens capitulating either. How is this situation going to change?

If they tag him and can't make a deal, they trade him for the best offer. Some team will bite. 

[hallas]

How do the Ravens and Jackson break the impasse? Lamar doesn't seem like he's going to budge and I don't see the Ravens capitulating either. How is this situation going to change?

I don't think the Ravens made a terribly strong offer in all honesty. I think that the deal will have 5 years guaranteed for injury and ~3 years guaranteed for cap/skill. The amount guaranteed for injury will be higher than Watson's and at least fulfills part of his wish.

[PrimeTime]

That's not the way you framed it. You said that plan likely brings him back to Baltimore, which imo is wrong.

Not really. I, me, Jamie, guy on the message board who's opinion doesn't really matter, believes the non exclusive tag is the best route for the reasons I laid out. But just because I believe that doesn't mean I think the Ravens will do it. What the hell do I know? Lol

If you want to ask me my ideal scenario, it would be exclusive tag and trade Lamar for a king's ransom and retool. I wouldn't be mad at all if Jackson was extended though. However, I think any use of the tag is dangerous because of the reasons I've already mention.

If the team truly wishes to retain Lamar but doesn't want to up the amount of guaranteed money in the deal, how do they get this done? How do they get Lamar to see that this demands on the guaranteed money are not in line with the market? That is why I've broached and tried to explain my thoughts about the non exclusive tag because that's the only way to actually see how other teams would value Jackson.

[PrimeTime]

I don't think the Ravens made a terribly strong offer in all honesty. I think that the deal will have 5 years guaranteed for injury and ~3 years guaranteed for cap/skill. The amount guaranteed for injury will be higher than Watson's and at least fulfills part of his wish.

If the reports were accurate, the AAV was around 50M, correct? And the reports on the guarantees varied from 133M to 180M. I thought that was a very fair offer. But fair is in the eye of the beholder.

[hallas]

If the reports were accurate, the AAV was around 50M, correct? And the reports on the guarantees varied from 133M to 180M. I thought that was a very fair offer. But fair is in the eye of the beholder.

It sounded like 133m fully guaranteed and 180 guaranteed for injury only. Considering Wilson got 126m fully guaranteed and Lamar should be getting way more than the corpse of Wilson, I'd call it a weak offer.

Now I could be mistaken on the numbers and that would change my perception.

[Steve55]

Another issue would be a team like Houston has a ton of cap space, and 2 first rounders. They could structure a contract in a way that the Ravens couldn't financially match, and still have a first rounder. That would be a steal for them.

A non-exclusive tag isn't viable.

 

 

But we get the # 2 pick in the draft.