5723 replies to this topic

[bmore_ken]

I'll take a stab at a scenario....

 

The Ravens will fail to get a deal done before the franchise tag deadline, then use the non exclusive tag, which allows Lamar to gauge his value. He will see that no other team is willing to give him a fully guaranteed deal and he returns to Baltimore to negotiate a new deal.

I could be wrong, but I think that will backfire. Mainly because I'm the only Ravens fan that doesn't think this is about a fully guaranteed deal, but about guaranteed money. If they do that, I think some team will give him an offer he can't refuse. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I think they move him, if for nothing else than because the Ravens are an amazingly well run organization and aren’t crippled by fear like many here that they won’t be able to win without him.

So Im legit confused. Youre all over the place. If they resign him to the richest deal ever are they crippled by fear or do you trust them like you said you would yesterday.

[SouthRider]

Beyond what anyone thinks should happen, what do you expect to happen here?

I'm pretty sure a deal gets done. 

 

 

I think Lamar wants to maximize his value.  He won't get that from the Ravens.  I also think the talked about potential deals are too good for EDC to turn down.  For these reasons, I think Lamar is gone. 

[PrimeTime]

I could be wrong, but I think that will backfire. Mainly because I'm the only Ravens fan that doesn't think this is about a fully guaranteed deal, but about guaranteed money. If they do that, I think some team will give him an offer he can't refuse. 

 

If Jackson gets an offer he can't refuse, so be it. Take the 2 first rounders and the cap space and move on.

 

Even though the exclusive franchise tag gives the Ravens the opportunity to get more value for Jackson, it's simply too risky of a move, IMO.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

It will be the exclusive tag if they use the tag. Hes worth more than 2 1sts. More important than that is they can control where to send him and pick which offer they want. They lose so much control if they dont use the exclusive tag

[PrimeTime]

It will be the exclusive tag if they use the tag. Hes worth more than 2 1sts. More important than that is they can control where to send him and pick which offer they want. They lose so much control if they dont use the exclusive tag

 

Understood and you're correct if the decision existed in a vacuum.

 

If you can't work out a trade or a long term deal and Lamar is tagged, it's bad news. Not only would we not be able to add to the roster but we would still need to clear salary to fit Jackson under the cap at his tagged salary. Also, as I mentioned earlier, if no long term deal is reached, Jackson in under no obligation to report to, or participate in any OTAs, mini camps or training camp. If we're installing a new system, the last thing you want is to not have your starting quarterback.

[You Play to Win the Game]

So Im legit confused. Youre all over the place. If they resign him to the richest deal ever are they crippled by fear or do you trust them like you said you would yesterday.

This is known, but thanks for finally admitting it.

They have way more information then we do. I trust them with this decision. I wouldn’t trust you, or me.

[Mackus]

If Jackson gets an offer he can't refuse, so be it. Take the 2 first rounders and the cap space and move on.

 

Even though the exclusive franchise tag gives the Ravens the opportunity to get more value for Jackson, it's simply too risky of a move, IMO.

 

Sign him or trade him.  The non-exclusive guarantees you lose him for significantly less than you can trade him for.  Terrible idea, IMO.  Increases the odds of him leaving and decreases the return if he does.  Literally the worst option.  Well, I guess no tag at all is the worst option, but this is second worst.

[Biggsy]

Sign him or trade him. The non-exclusive guarantees you lose him for significantly less than you can trade him for. Terrible idea, IMO. Increases the odds of him leaving and decreases the return if he does. Literally the worst option. Well, I guess no tag at all is the worst option, but this is second worst.

Another issue would be a team like Houston has a ton of cap space, and 2 first rounders. They could structure a contract in a way that the Ravens couldn't financially match, and still have a first rounder. That would be a steal for them.

A non-exclusive tag isn't viable.

[Biggsy]

Just not true at all. There are plenty here who have said explicitly we won’t be able to contend without him. I’m not talking about you or Mackus here.

Not sure if this was aimed at me, but I've never said we couldn't contend without Jackson. Just that we have a sure thing right now, but an unknown without.

I trust our FO. More than likely they make the right moves. There is a whole human element to this that we don't have either. There is a very real human relationship between the team and Lamar, and I'm sure there is a loyalty there that none of us feel, that they do.

I think EDC and Co. want to get something done. I think they'll do everything in their power to keep Lamar in Baltimore. I also think they're going to set a hard date to have it done. And if nothing is worked out by that date, we may see trade discussions begin. What happens there dictates our whole offseason. I see no way that EDC allows this thing to continue all offseason with an unknown ending.

[jamesdean]

I think Lamar wants to maximize his value.  He won't get that from the Ravens.  I also think the talked about potential deals are too good for EDC to turn down.  For these reasons, I think Lamar is gone. 

I still say the overriding factor will be whether Lamar truly wants to be a Raven the rest of his career.  I don't see him demanding a trade but definitely giving the front office no other choice by rejecting all their offers.  So far, that's how it's played out and Lamar doesn't seem too concerned about it.  Maybe in his mind, he's already gone.  Maybe that's where his mind was the whole time he was out with the injury.  I have a feeling if he does get traded, we're going to be hearing a lot of fallout from his end either on Twitter or in interviews. I think his first few years he was very happy here and loved playing for Harbaugh.  You could see it in his behavior on and off the field. But not so much the past couple of years and I could see a marked difference this year.  He just didn't seem as animated and there was a disconnect somewhere.  Didn't look happy on the sideline between drives.  So, we shall see but unless Lamar really wants to be here, all this talk about contracts is irrelevant. 

[PrimeTime]

Sign him or trade him.  The non-exclusive guarantees you lose him for significantly less than you can trade him for.  Terrible idea, IMO.  Increases the odds of him leaving and decreases the return if he does.  Literally the worst option.  Well, I guess no tag at all is the worst option, but this is second worst.

 

I would argue that the non exclusive tag increases the odds of him returning because he has an opportunity to see what his value is and the Ravens would have the opportunity to match any offer sheet. Otherwise, how are these negotiations going to move forward? Since the end of negotiations prior to the season, there's been nothing to move either party off of their current respective positions. How else do you break the impasse?

 

If you put the exclusive tag on him, it means he's being traded. You cannot risk him playing on the tag, it costs too much under the cap and potentially wrecks your season because I don't believe there's any way Jackson would report before opening day......or report at all for that matter.

[mdrunning]

It will be the exclusive tag if they use the tag. Hes worth more than 2 1sts. More important than that is they can control where to send him and pick which offer they want. They lose so much control if they dont use the exclusive tag

Only if some other team shares that sentiment. It's like listing your house for $500K. It doesn't necessarily mean it's worth that much; it's ultimately going to be worth what someone is willing to pay you.

 

The 800 lb. gorilla in the room is still the fully-guaranteed money. If Lamar moves off that position, then this entire conversation is null and void because he'll remain a Raven long-term. But multiple high draft picks for the privilege of inking Lamar to a potentially cap-prohibitive contract? I still question if that team even exists.

[hallas]

I would argue that the non exclusive tag increases the odds of him returning because he has an opportunity to see what his value is and the Ravens would have the opportunity to match any offer sheet. Otherwise, how are these negotiations going to move forward? Since the end of negotiations prior to the season, there's been nothing to move either party off of their current respective positions. How else do you break the impasse?

 

If you put the exclusive tag on him, it means he's being traded. You cannot risk him playing on the tag, it costs too much under the cap and potentially wrecks your season because I don't believe there's any way Jackson would report before opening day......or report at all for that matter.

While the Ravens aren't super cash-strapped a team that's looking to screw over the Ravens could structure the deal so that year 1 is all salary and years 2 and 3 are all option bonuses so that the Ravens cannot match.  It's a huge risk and the return on a non-exclusive tag is nowhere near his trade value so I think it's both a terrible idea and a way to increase his likelihood of leaving.

[Mackus]

I would argue that the non exclusive tag increases the odds of him returning

Can't disagree with this more. Absolutely 180 degree difference of opinion. You put the non-exclusive tag on him and he's 100% gone, IMO. Someone will sign him to a deal the Ravens cannot match, and acquire him for 70 cents on the dollar in terms of draft capital return.

[bmore_ken]

I would argue that the non exclusive tag increases the odds of him returning because he has an opportunity to see what his value is and the Ravens would have the opportunity to match any offer sheet. Otherwise, how are these negotiations going to move forward? Since the end of negotiations prior to the season, there's been nothing to move either party off of their current respective positions. How else do you break the impasse?

If you put the exclusive tag on him, it means he's being traded. You cannot risk him playing on the tag, it costs too much under the cap and potentially wrecks your season because I don't believe there's any way Jackson would report before opening day......or report at all for that matter.

These are opposing statements. So your position is use the NE tag. What happens if another team beats the offer the Ravens offered in the offseason that Lamar rejected? Since all of you are on this fully guaranteed kick. What happens if some team offers him a fully guaranteed deal? I guess this is where you say let him go and take the two picks, but it's already been explained to you why that's a bad move. I guess you don't agree and I guess no one can move you off that position.

[bmore_ken]

Can't disagree with this more. Absolutely 180 degree difference of opinion. You put the non-exclusive tag on him and he's 100% gone, IMO. Someone will sign him to a deal the Ravens cannot match, and acquire him for 70 cents on the dollar in terms of draft capital return.

Pretty similar to what I said in different words. 

[Mike in STL]

Jackson didn't feel secure structurally. No problem imo with him not playing.
The point you made that I think is valid is that he shut down negotiating after the season began.
Had negotiations continued, and had a deal been reached during the year... maybe he might have been more comfortable with trying to gut it out.

Do you think his career would be ended had he hurt it worse? Think he stands to make a fraction of what he could if he hurt it worse?

I keep citing Dak Prescott as an example of someone with catastrophic injury who got paid big time money. I don’t know where this idea that he won’t get paid, or he risks losing generational wealth by playing hurt. It’s absurd. Having not been paid a large deal shouldn’t be a factor.

[PrimeTime]

These are opposing statements. So your position is use the NE tag. What happens if another team beats the offer the Ravens offered in the offseason that Lamar rejected? Since all of you are on this fully guaranteed kick. What happens if some team offers him a fully guaranteed deal? I guess this is where you say let him go and take the two picks, but it's already been explained to you why that's a bad move. I guess you don't agree and I guess no one can move you off that position.

 

I'm not on a fully guaranteed kick but let's just say it's going to take an awful lot of guaranteed money; at least from all indications. 

 

The statements I made aren't opposing, they're not even linked. Under the terms of the non exclusive tag, the Ravens could match any offer, that's just the facts of the tag. Regarding the 2nd bolded statement, can you point to anything that's happened that would cause either party to change their position? I can't. However, if Jackson goes to other teams in need of a QB and finds that other clubs are in the neighborhood of what the Ravens' last offer was, it makes him easier to sign. Or, if Jackson gets an offer that surpasses Watson guaranteed dollars (not a fully guaranteed, whole enchilada but over 230M guaranteed), then the Ravens know where they stand and can make an informed decision as to how much they value Jackson.

 

I completely understand that the possibility of getting more value for Jackson exists under the exclusive tag but again, if you can't consummate a trade, you're in a precarious spot.

[PrimeTime]

Can't disagree with this more. Absolutely 180 degree difference of opinion. You put the non-exclusive tag on him and he's 100% gone, IMO. Someone will sign him to a deal the Ravens cannot match, and acquire him for 70 cents on the dollar in terms of draft capital return.

 

I'm not even espousing the Ravens should go the route that I'm suggesting. However, for an incredibly unique, practically unprecedented situation, I was presenting an out of the box solution.

 

And this is the beauty of message board discussions amongst fans. We can have diametrically opposed view points and it's all good. I appreciate your perspective as always.