962 replies to this topic

[BSLRoseKatz]

That's a cool query, I like it. What site is that? It looks like baseball-reference? I had no idea they had one for College BB, what a noob.

Yep! https://www.sports-r.../tgl_finder.cgi

[BSLRoseKatz]

Didn't the Terps do that last year?  Wisconsin and Illinois?  Fair to discount it quite a bit because there weren't any fans, totally different animal.

They did and yeah I do feel like it has a pretty decent asterisk with the no crowds and also their pretty crappy track record against ranked teams on the road when there were crowds

[BSLZackKiesel]

Kevin Willard and Seton Hall just knocked off #7 Texas.

[hallas]

I caught part of the Seton Hall Texas game and I sort of understand why some people call him a safe boring hire. His team is really, really good defensively and they're just ok offensively. Admittedly vs a top-10 team so it's maybe a little hard to get a good grasp of his coaching as a whole since he was playing vs top notch competition. I do think he's more more effective offensively than Turgeon but I see a lot of similarities. I'm not entirely sure he's going to energize the base with an exciting brand of basketball.

Would you be OK with a more effective Mark Turgeon clone running the Terps? When it doesn't work it gets ugly in a hurry.

Importantly though he does run a faster tempo. He's at 70 possessions per 40, which is a lot higher than Turgeon (typically around 64-66.) This is on the high end but he's never been below 66.5 in the last 4 years, and 68-69 is pretty typical for him. That is still quite a bit faster than Turgeon's teams.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I caught part of the Seton Hall Texas game and I sort of understand why some people call him a safe boring hire. His team is really, really good defensively and they're just ok offensively. Admittedly vs a top-10 team so it's maybe a little hard to get a good grasp of his coaching as a whole since he was playing vs top notch competition. I do think he's more more effective offensively than Turgeon but I see a lot of similarities. I'm not entirely sure he's going to energize the base with an exciting brand of basketball.

Would you be OK with a more effective Mark Turgeon clone running the Terps? When it doesn't work it gets ugly in a hurry.

Importantly though he does run a faster tempo. He's at 70 possessions per 40, which is a lot higher than Turgeon (typically around 64-66.) This is on the high end but he's never been below 66.5 in the last 4 years, and 68-69 is pretty typical for him. That is still quite a bit faster than Turgeon's teams.

Good post. I came away impressed after tonight personally, but you make some really good points here.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Just throwing this out of nowhere really….but when it truly comes down to it, it wasn’t all about the slow pace and poor aesthetics of Turgeon’s teams we didn’t like. Ultimately it was because he didn’t do well in the tournament. It kind of jibes with what we saw from his teams in the latter part of the season in general. They almost always faded.

 

Why was that? Who knows. Maybe over the course of the season he wasn’t cognizant of when he needed to give his players more rest, and instead pushed too hard in practices? Maybe, despite many of the accolades he receives, Kyle Tarp didn’t adjust their workouts accordingly during the season?

 

This is just to say that as we look at possible candidates, maybe pay close attention to when their teams tend to hit their peak as much as anything else. Big wins are nice in Dec and Jan, but no one remembers them come March.

[hallas]

Good post. I came away impressed after tonight personally, but you make some really good points here.

Dont get me wrong, he's a good coach and I think he gets his team to execute better and more cleanly on offense. I think he's a high floor guy with a marginally higher ceiling than Turgeon. I think that is enough. If he comes here and he is basically Turgeon plus 1 s16 and 1 e8 in the tourney, I'd be very happy with that. I'm not entirely certain others would be. He would have to show unexpected growth in terms of roster building and coaching high tier recruits for him to perform beyond that IMO. There are others I'd probably prefer but considering hirability etc. I think he's a great choice as of now.

Just throwing this out of nowhere really….but when it truly comes down to it, it wasn’t all about the slow pace and poor aesthetics of Turgeon’s teams we didn’t like. Ultimately it was because he didn’t do well in the tournament. It kind of jibes with what we saw from his teams in the latter part of the season in general. They almost always faded.

Why was that? Who knows. Maybe over the course of the season he wasn’t cognizant of when he needed to give his players more rest, and instead pushed too hard in practices? Maybe, despite many of the accolades he receives, Kyle Tarp didn’t adjust their workouts accordingly during the season?

This is just to say that as we look at possible candidates, maybe pay close attention to when their teams tend to hit their peak as much as anything else. Big wins are nice in Dec and Jan, but no one remembers them come March.

Turgeon didn't really win big in January/February either. He won what he was supposed to. And his seeding reflected that. His 2016 squad with sulaimon and trimble was 7th preseason and got bounced in the s16. Who knows what he would have done with the 2019 squad but they were fading too. If he plays better in January/February/conference tourney, it's a lot easier to advance as a 2 or 3 seed. We were on track for a 1 seed before we choked at the end of the season in 2019.

Aside from his failures as an in game coach he also doesn't have a long enough depth chart to keep his guys from wearing out.

[BSLZackKiesel]

Yeah last year’s team is the only one of Turgeon’s I can remember where they actually got stronger in January and February. And naturally it was one of his least talented teams.

Things I’ve read say Willard’s in-game adjustments are one of his biggest strengths. That would certainly be a welcome change from the Turgeon era. So while his offenses may not be incredibly innovative, they’d run at a fast pace and wouldn’t leave us wanting to gouge our eyes out quite as often.

[Mackus]

I would prefer a different style to Turgeon but if he wins playing a little slowly then we'll all accept it.  Style becomes a factor once substance goes away.  I'll forgive disappointments if it's still fun to watch, but when it's a slog even when things go well then it's a lot harder to defend when things aren't going well.

 

I would be fine with Willard being the choice, but have some other names and profiles that I like better right now.

[Mackus]

Importantly though he does run a faster tempo. He's at 70 possessions per 40, which is a lot higher than Turgeon (typically around 64-66.) This is on the high end but he's never been below 66.5 in the last 4 years, and 68-69 is pretty typical for him. That is still quite a bit faster than Turgeon's teams.

 

Is that a lot higher?  Genuine question.  I don't know if I could tell the difference between a game with 70 possessions versus 66.

 

Not sure how KenPom tempo relates to feel of the game either.  Last 5 seasons (incl this year so far) Seton Hall is 72, 264, 93, 100, 103.  So looks like last season's slow pace for them was an anomaly.  Turgeon is usually well into the 200s so that does seem likeit should be noticeably faster if Willard is usually top-100 in tempo.

[Mike B]

Just throwing this out of nowhere really….but when it truly comes down to it, it wasn’t all about the slow pace and poor aesthetics of Turgeon’s teams we didn’t like. Ultimately it was because he didn’t do well in the tournament. It kind of jibes with what we saw from his teams in the latter part of the season in general. They almost always faded.

 

Why was that? Who knows. Maybe over the course of the season he wasn’t cognizant of when he needed to give his players more rest, and instead pushed too hard in practices? Maybe, despite many of the accolades he receives, Kyle Tarp didn’t adjust their workouts accordingly during the season?

 

This is just to say that as we look at possible candidates, maybe pay close attention to when their teams tend to hit their peak as much as anything else. Big wins are nice in Dec and Jan, but no one remembers them come March.

I think the pace and style of play and the refusal to do much different from game to game made it easy for the opposition to handle the Terps.  I long thought, the Terps late season folds, were due to teams being ready to shut them down.

[BSLChrisStoner]

@GoodmanHoops

With such a minor penalty and the NCAA decision behind him, now the question becomes whether Maryland makes a run at Bruce Pearl. Just not sure Maryland could/would pay what it takes to lure Pearl, but he’s a northeast guy and Maryland is a better basketball job.

[BSLZackKiesel]

@GoodmanHoops

With such a minor penalty and the NCAA decision behind him, now the question becomes whether Maryland makes a run at Bruce Pearl. Just not sure Maryland could/would pay what it takes to lure Pearl, but he’s a northeast guy and Maryland is a better basketball job.

The guy's had NCAA violations everywhere he's been. While the penalty in this case may have been less than was originally thought, there's no way Maryland will or should take a run at him.

[glenn__davis]

Yeah, no interest at all in Pearl from me.

[Mackus]

If we're gonna go for someone with NCAA violation stink on them it should be Miller. 

[hallas]

Is that a lot higher? Genuine question. I don't know if I could tell the difference between a game with 70 possessions versus 66.

Not sure how KenPom tempo relates to feel of the game either. Last 5 seasons (incl this year so far) Seton Hall is 72, 264, 93, 100, 103. So looks like last season's slow pace for them was an anomaly. Turgeon is usually well into the 200s so that does seem likeit should be noticeably faster if Willard is usually top-100 in tempo.

I think it's noticeable. Possessions are about 2 seconds shorter on average. That could mean running your offense with 18 seconds on the shot clock instead of 15. Or it could mean 7 more fast breaks.

[BSLMikeLowe]

@GoodmanHoops

With such a minor penalty and the NCAA decision behind him, now the question becomes whether Maryland makes a run at Bruce Pearl. Just not sure Maryland could/would pay what it takes to lure Pearl, but he’s a northeast guy and Maryland is a better basketball job.

 

MD would never go there.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Auburn has a beautiful arena and they love him there. I’m betting Bruce Pearl is at Auburn for a long time. He’s getting it done.

[hallas]

If we're gonna go for someone with NCAA violation stink on them it should be Miller.

I think the problem with Miller is that if there's no resolution before the season is done and they slap him with a show-cause we're back where we started.

[hallas]

Totally just nostalgia, but I learned today that Pearl runs a flex offense that he modeled off Williams, which makes me like him more.