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Jordan Lyles


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#141 Mackus

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 03:51 PM

Options need to be picked up within 5 days of the end of the World Series.  So we'll know within two weeks what the decision is on Lyles.  That's also when free agency begins.  Trading opens up the day after the series ends.

 

I don't think the Lyles decision will be particularly indicative of the rest of their plans.  But I am interested to see what they do.



#142 dude

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Posted 29 October 2022 - 10:18 AM

Options need to be picked up within 5 days of the end of the World Series.  So we'll know within two weeks what the decision is on Lyles.  That's also when free agency begins.  Trading opens up the day after the series ends.

 

I don't think the Lyles decision will be particularly indicative of the rest of their plans.  But I am interested to see what they do.

 

If the Orioles were going to pick it up to use him, they already could have.  There's no coy play here.  There's no new information between now and the deadline to pick it up.  It doesn't matter what Lyles does or doesn't understand.  Nothin else will be accomplished or even understood by the time you have to make a decision that would impact that decision.

 

So if they aren't saying yes, they are in fact, saying no.

 

While I understand the point that you can pick up the option, do everything else and if he becomes extra, trade him (or even release him), I can't think of a team that actually does that so that's not an expectation for the Orioles under any condition.

-----------

 

The only thing that could make any sense is if you had another team that was modestly interested in Lyles (even as an over-pay for one year) and you needed to wait for (as Mackus just said), the 'trade season' and you wanted to thread that needle (it's a multi-day window, not actually that hard) then that's maybe a thing.

 

If you wanted to try and connect a couple dots, if I was Nick Krall, I would want Lyles.  I could have four 0-year pitchers in my rotation (Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft, Williamson) and I really need a guy that can teach them to be a professional and Lyles has gotten some public credit for that with the Orioles staff in 2022 (I can't speak for his longer previous reputation).

 

Why do the Orioles collect two meaningless waivered catchers from the Reds for 40 days before they get released again?....you want to talk to them about upper level players in the Reds system (ie, guys they would have played with/caught/seen) for insight into a modest trade.



#143 Mackus

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Posted 29 October 2022 - 10:21 AM


While I understand the point that you can pick up the option, do everything else and if he becomes extra, trade him (or even release him), I can't think of a team that actually does that so that's not an expectation for the Orioles under any condition.

The Orioles have done exactly this recently. Jose Iglesias.
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#144 Mackus

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Posted 29 October 2022 - 10:24 AM

If the Orioles were going to pick it up to use him, they already could have. There's no coy play here. There's no new information between now and the deadline to pick it up. It doesn't matter what Lyles does or doesn't understand. Nothin else will be accomplished or even understood by the time you have to make a decision that would impact that decision.

So if they aren't saying yes, they are in fact, saying no.

Almost every team in baseball doesn't make announcements like this until after the World Series. It's basically unwritten rule to not draw attention away. Not having picked up Lyles' option yet doesn't tell us anything about if the will or won't or will then trade him.

I mean, would you say the same thing (that not having picked it up by now means they aren't picking it up) about Tim Anderson? His option hasn't been picked up yet as far as I can tell. But it'd be very strange to say this means the White Sox are saying no.
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#145 dude

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Posted 29 October 2022 - 10:37 AM

The Orioles have done exactly this recently. Jose Iglesias.

 

I'd say this could be more of the Lyles situation.  They didn't want Iglesias. They weren't picking him up to use him, they picked him up to trade him.  We talked about this specifically, he was the last player to have his option picked up.  Elias was looking for (locking in) the trade partner (or deal if there was more than one).  Otherwise it changes his approach wrt the option.



#146 dude

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Posted 29 October 2022 - 10:44 AM

Almost every team in baseball doesn't make announcements like this until he after the World Series. It's basically unwritten rule to not draw attention away. Not having picked up Lyles' option yet doesn't tell us anything about if the will or won't or will then trade him.

I mean, would you say the same thing (that not having picked it up by now means they aren't picking it up) about Tim Anderson? His option hasn't been picked up yet as far as I can tell. But it'd be very strange to say this means the White Sox are saying no.

 

That's fine, but Elias doesn't have to hide behind the deadline.  For most players it's obvious and Rick Hahn isn't going to leave any questions about Anderson's option (or anyone in similar situation).  Players with opt outs are already telling us what they plan on doing ahead of the deadline.

 

Just because you don't do it yet, doesn't mean you can't indicate you will.  Elias has done the opposite of indicate he will. 



#147 Mackus

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Posted 29 October 2022 - 10:56 AM

That's fine, but Elias doesn't have to hide behind the deadline. For most players it's obvious and Rick Hahn isn't going to leave any questions about Anderson's option (or anyone in similar situation). Players with opt outs are already telling us what they plan on doing ahead of the deadline.

Just because you don't do it yet, doesn't mean you can't indicate you will. Elias has done the opposite of indicate he will.

No, he doesn't have to show respect for the game, but doing so doesn't tell us that they are or are not gonna pick up the option. If you think you know what they'll do, that's great, but I imagine that they didn't pick up the option yet is just confirmation bias and not a smoking gun.

#148 makoman

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Posted 29 October 2022 - 10:57 AM

Just because you can indicate doesn’t mean you have to. Has Mancini or the Astros told us what they’re doing with his option yet? Not that I’ve seen. I’m sure they know.

I don’t understand the point here. You’re trying to make something meaningless have some sort of hidden meaning. Yeah, Elias probably already knows whether he wants to pick it up. So what.
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#149 dude

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Posted 29 October 2022 - 11:01 AM

My point is they aren't picking up the option unless someone (like the Reds) wants him in a trade.



#150 Mackus

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Posted 29 October 2022 - 11:04 AM


My point is they aren't picking up the option unless someone (like the Reds) wants him in a trade.

That's a fine prediction. That they haven't done it yet isn't confirmation or even indication that they aren't going to. The current status is absolutely meaningless.
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#151 dude

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Posted 29 October 2022 - 11:17 AM

That's a fine prediction. That they haven't done it yet isn't confirmation or even indication that they aren't going to. The current status is absolutely meaningless.

 

I'm referring to his language as the indicator to their intent.



#152 Mackus

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Posted 29 October 2022 - 11:55 AM


I'm referring to his language as the indicator to their intent.


What were his comments?

#153 BSLBobPhelan

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Posted 09 November 2022 - 01:57 PM

O’s decline the $11 million option for 2023.
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#154 Mackus

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Posted 09 November 2022 - 02:00 PM

Hope it's because they're committed to finding better!
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#155 Mike B

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Posted 09 November 2022 - 02:19 PM

O’s decline the $11 million option for 2023.

I would not have been surprised either way.

I am hoping that they are planning to spend on a better pitcher(s).

 

Good luck to Lyles.  He did better than most of us expected, and was a class act all year.


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#156 Mike B

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Posted 09 November 2022 - 02:21 PM

I think that takes the 40 man to 33, with the need to add Means.  Maybe it is also them making spaces for all the additions that will need to be made prior to the Rule 5.


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